Residence Orders - Children/Cafcass etc

[Piratemum123]

Hi all. Hopefully one of you can give us a little bit of help/advice, perhaps someone here has been in the same situation.

My partner has two children under 5, he and his ex (children's mother) have informally agreed to share the care of the children 50/50. There are no current court orders or residency orders in place regarding contact or where the children live. The children live with us one week and their mother the next week.

Cafcass have now become involved due to another issue (not directly relating to the children). It is now almost certain that leading on from this a court are likely to be ruling on residency of the children We have been advised that cafcass are very likely to recommend to the court that very young children (they are both under 5) should not be spending 7 nights at a time with each parent and that it could be detimental to them and that they should have one set home and lots ofcontact with the other parent too.

DP is very worried. He obviously wants what is best for his children but understandably doesn't want to see them only every othe weekend as we have been told often this is ordered by the court. He wants to do everything he can both in the children's best interests and his own to ensure if the court do order one parent has them more that it is him. There are no issues with either of them like drink or drugs or abuse or anything that means one is less appopriate to have the children. Can anyone make any recommendations?

The alternate week care has only been in place for less than 4 months. Before that, for around 9 months he had them most nights, she often "had" them
during the day and she paid him maintenance via csa on the basis of her having them overnight one night per week.

He has the child benefit in his name as he had them much more than she did. She lives a 15 min drive from the school and nursery he lives in the home which has historically always been the children's home (10 min walk from the school). The children's medical reords, G.P's etc is all registered to his address as is the primary school and nursery.

We are moving in together with my daughter too. This means we will be able to care for the children between us without the need to use much if any childcare. The children's mother has recently increased her work hours and we assume this means the children may be in full day care 8-6 a fir bit when she has them. Of course many people use childcare but DP is of the thinking that surely the kids are better to be with him/at home than in paid daycare. He is soon changing his workplace to work near the school and is going to reduce his hours too so he can spend even more time with them

So for the last year he can prove he has had them much more than she has so it's is what the children are more used to and we believe that if the court are to order one parent to have them more that it should be him. We also try and encourage contact and communication between her and the children, we get the children to call her etc something that she has yet to do.

So, I'm waffling now but any advice or tips would be very welcome.

Thanks.

[mumblechum1]

Who has told you that Cafcass will recommend a change to the current arrangements? tbh if they're working well and both parents are happy, it's unlikely that the court will interfere.

On a side issue, the fact that the children have some time in daycare may be seen as an advantage; they'll be learning through play etc, so it isn't always better to be at home with a parent.

[Piratemum123]

Thanks mumblechum. A solicitor told us that CAFCASS strongly disagree with alternate week care for very young children when there is no midweek contact with the other parent, so much so they may advise the court to change the status quo as it's only been in place a few months.

I understand what you mean about childcare. However we're talking 10 hrs a day in childcare maybe a few times a week. The eldest will be at school so mixing and learning and the youngest goes to Pre school so gets his learning and socializing there. It seems daft for a 2.5yr old to go into 10 hrs a day childcare when he could be seeing his daddy when he already onl. Spends 50% of his time with him.

Can you offer any advice on what the court would look for. Perhaps the criteria they use to decide which parent is given residency? Also, can we get my name on a residency order (living together) as the children's mother has tried to take the children off me for no reason before when they've been in his care ( he popped out and I was babysiting) she caused a massive scene and we had to call police. No reason for this except she just doesn't like me as I am another "mother" around her children as I have my own. She doesn't like another woman around her kids so has massive issues with me.

[RedHelenB]

The issue of you parenting his children could well be one that make CAFCASS change the status quo. I'm a bit confused though, who is it that wants the change? The mother?

[Piratemum123]

Thanks for replying RedHelenB.

Neither particularly want the change but solicitors have advised us that now CAFCASS are involved and there are various court heaings etc that they may order some other residence pattern as it is strongly believed that it is detrimental to very young children (both under 5) to spend an entire week with to no contact with the other parents. We have been told to be prepared that a court may decide that alternate weeks is not to continue.

When you say about me "parenting" his children. Do you mean it's a positive or negative thing? Their mothe. And her relatives have unfortunately lied about me and accused me of saying things that I haven't. They do not like it that we live together along with my daughter and try to have a normal "family" when the children are with us. I adore his children and would never do or say anything detrimental to them. We hoped that a stable home and the ability for them to be cared for without being at full time childcare would be a positive thing for my DP should a court decide which parent has the children with them more of the time. Oh dear. I do hope it's not going to cause problems. :( Its all so hard and stressful.

[bananaistheanswer]

Ah, so rather then heed the advice on your 'epic' Step Parent thread, you've actually accelerated your plans and now live together. Pirate, if you seriously believe that you 'would never do or say anything detrimental' to your OH's kids, while you prevent them from speaking to their mother while in your care, and blindly ignore how you and your OH's actions are causing your OH's kids so much stored up heart-ache, you really are as deluded as your previous 'epic' thread suggested. Good luck with your 'perfect little family'. You'll need it.

[Lurksalot]

Banana- OP didn't start the step-parent thread.

And stalking posters is a bit creepy.

[Piratemum123]

Lurksalot. I started the "epic" overstepping thread but not one kitten referred to about sink schools. Twinkletoes, how charmingly sweet you are, you are!

[twinkletoes12]

Charmingly sweet of you to take over the childrens MOTHERS role of Mother too....
I too would of thought you would of changed your name, after that thread, tbh.

[MagicLlamaStrikesBack]

Basically, depending on the view of the CAFCASS officer, your appearance of wanting to replace the mother could be a bad thing.

However if CAFCASS isnt reporting on the contact / residency issues it might also not come up as something for them to look at if both parents say they are happy with it.

The problem will definately come up if the schools issue is raised as your plans for schooling are completely unworkable within the 50/50 care you currently have.

What are CAFCASS writing their report on? And why are the court "certain to be ruling on residency" The court have a no order principal, meaning that unless someone raises the issue, why would the court address it?

[NotaDisneyMum]

CAFCASS are an agency that is ordered by the family court to provide a report regarding a child issue that they are ruling on. What are they currently writing their report on? Why have they become involved ?

Yet again, pirate you are being economical with the facts.

If there is another child-related issue in court, then the issue of residency will be significantly influenced by that.

As for trying to secure parental responsibility for your partners DCs via a residency order with your name on it - words fail me.
Fortunately, family courts are familiar with women such as yourselves and the chance of that happening in the circumstances you describe is nil.

[Piratemum123]

Disney. You're right I am being vague but I guess I Gould. The CAFCASS involvement is regarding the nursery childcare setting the youngest is at. DP's ex wants him to continue and DP doesn't. He's there 3 full days a week and doesn't need to be and is struggling as he's so young still plus it's a really shit nursery! She's trying to orce him to keep him there from Sept onwards and to have to pay for it too! So do you think where they live etc won't come into twir questions/ recommendations? We've never had dealings with CAFCASS or courts before so have no idea if they stick to the subject or not or will he get interrogated about everything? Can I just stay out of it or will they need to talk to me too? Eeek.

Me being on a residency order is just a question we have no idea if there will even be an order and DP isn't going to push for one at the moment, unless it's necessary regarding the passports issue on my thread in lone parents. DP's last solicitor suggested it may be a good idea and we are trying to get some advice. We can't see any way it would have a negative affect on the children at all, or are we missing something?

[NotaDisneyMum]

So has your DP applied for a specific issue order or a prohibited steps order - or has his ex?

Regardless, Your DP and his ex have had to seek court intervention to make a parenting decision on their behalf because they are unable to agree. I think that it is inevitable the the courts will decide that residency should lie with one parent. As I have said before, your involvement and active presence in the DCs life could well be a liability to your DP securing that as his commitment regarding the DCs right to an equal relationship with their mum will be questioned.

[NotaDisneyMum]

pirate you are giving different accounts on different threads again - if your DP doesn't want to influence his ex choice if childcare, why are they in court over it.

I've got better things to do with my time than play your sick little games.

[purpleroses]

I'd not heard about Cafcass having opposition to alternate week type contact, though do have doubts myself that that is the berst way to do things.

I've known a few parents do a 50-50 split and what they do is for one of them to have the kids Monday and Tuesday nights and the other have Wed and Thu, then alternate the weekends. If you do it that way the kids don't have to go so long without seeing either parent, and it makes things a lot more straightforward with childcare, activities, etc in the week because you have the DC on regular days of the week.

So for instance, you and your DP could organise whatever childcare you wanted for the days when you were to have them overnight, and his ex could sort out "her" days. It's a lot better for the child than trying to alternate things on a weekly basis - it's clearly not good for a child to be in nursery one week and out of it the next.

[NotaDisneyMum]

purple Weekly contact is considered more appropriate for older DCs - my DD was 8 when it was put in place and considered on the young side for the arrangement to work.
The OP is referring to Pre-school DCs.

[purpleroses]

Yes that makes sense NADM - I can see that the issue about length of time apart from each parent is not such an issue for older children. The people I know who do the half-weekly split do find it works well with older children too though because each parent can make autonomous decisions about activities, etc that fall on their days of the week. No need for arguments over whether they attend swimming classes, scouts, etc, and also they can arrange whatever childcare is needed and fit their working hours around it. Quite hard to find a job that will let you do extra hours on one week and less hours on the next. Two of them are friends of my DD's and it make it easier to arrange play dates as I know which parent to ask for which days of the week.

But definitely in the OP's case with pre-school children when there are arguments over childcare it would seem a better arrangement.

[Piratemum123]

Thanks purple roses. All advice DP has taken (including on here) has said alternate full weeks is not the best option for young children (NADM is right they are both preschoolers). He is thinking of proposals that's are better for the kids. One parent having Mon-Thurs the other has them Fri-Sun. But he knows it will cause the problem of one having them more nights, something they will not be able to agree on as they'd both want the children for the 4 nights not the 3. Sigh. It gas been suggested the children have one main home and see the other parent every other weekend and half of school holidays, but that means the parent with EOW ses even less of them. He thought perhaps they could include a midweek night for that parent but he (perhaps selfishly) would rather be the one who has them more. We also think she'd struggle to have them more than alternate weeks and that they'd spend a lot of that time in childcare rather than actually with her. We are currently exploring the option of moving to right near the eldest DSS's school, despite it being unbelieveably expensive to live there and me possibly increasing my hours at work. It would mean my daughter moving school too, so lots of sacrifices on our part but it may have to be done as we're running out of options.

[purpleroses]

Splittting the week as you suggest might work - but would either parent really want to have no weekends with the kids? You can always have three nights each as a regular and alternate the seventh, so that you keep 50-50 if that's what you want. With two kids you can also have one claiming child benefit for each of them, which entitles you to tax credits, etc.

I'm not sure why you're so worried that your DP will be moved to some much more minimal contact than he has. CAFCASS usually keep to something close to the status quo unless there's good reason to change - and you say that the 50-50 split is something that your DP and his ex have agreed between them, so why would anyone look to take time off him? Saying that alternate whole weeks is not the best thing for young children is not the same thing at all as saying that they can't split their time beween two homes on a 50-50 basis. One of the people I know that does the 50-50 (splitting the week in half) got that awarded through court when DCs were around 3 and 6. He has the child benefit for one of the kids and his ex has it for the other, which keeps everyting very balanced in terms of who has control of things.

[NotaDisneyMum]

pirate you say he is thinking of options that will be better for the DCs but then go on to say what he would prefer, the fact that both parents would be the ones to have more days and that you would have to make sacrifices in order to have what he wants.

Why not stay living where you are, with your DD settled in school and close to family and your DPs DCs spend EOW Friday to Monday with you, plus half of all holidays, including half terms?

You and your DP could arrange flexible working around an early finish and late start on those weekdays - it gives your DP direct contact with the school on the days he picks up and drops off, and if BH's fall on the DCs time with their dad, then he could drop them on the Tuesday instead.

The value of the contact is what your DP makes it - if he creates a normal family environment then his DCs will view it as such, regardless of whether they are there all the time or part time.

Other than what your DP wants, exactly why is that arrangement bad for the DCs?

[RedHelenB]

I really don't think any court would rule against a child being in nursery 3 days a week! Can't see why you are going to court on that one, if it really was shit it wouldn't be OFSTED registered!!!

[NotaDisneyMum]

red if I remember correctly, the nursery issue was previously about convenience - the OP and her DP will be living 40mins drive away from the DCs nursery and the OP and her DP have decided to send the DCs to a different nursery during the weeks that the DCs are with them, because it is more convenient for them. The nursery that the DCs are currently attending is one that the parents selected together when they were a couple - and is now some distance from their mums new house, but they are still attending despite the distance The OPs DD attends a school close to their new home together, and the practicalities of drop offs were challenging for the OP and her DP - a problem that would be compounded when the oldest DS starts school in September.

Not unsurprisingly, it sounds like the DCs mum has questioned the benefit of DCs attending different formal childcare/early education settings on alternate weeks - which seems to have led to some form of court action.

At least, that's one of the versions the OP has presented previously - but I'm sure that she'll be back with another one!

[Piratemum123]

No Disney you are correct, that is pretty much it with the nursery. However, it's more complicated. It's not only about it being a shit nursery he's had loads of financial problems with her paying her share (less than half) late and there's still an outstanding balance she hasn't paid and the nursery are starting to threaten to refuse the children. She has complained massively when he took the kids out one time to have a day trip with us for one of their birthdays. Despite him paying the majority and it being during "his" time. We may now actually move to where the former family home is, it's being discussed. However DP would rather the you heat go to a Childminder than the nursery. She has arrangedher own Childminder and refuses DP any details or info or even to tell him if they've attended there each week yet maintains she needs to know everything about their time at nursery on "his"
weeks. He doesn't want the kids in childcare any more than necessary yet he needs a flexible Childminder for his shift work and my DD will probably go to the same Childminder (just a few ad hoc hours around my work) He doesn't want to end up them going to a Childminder a few hours a week to facilitate his shifts and ALSO being forced to send the youngest to nursery 3 full days a week when often e has those days off. Hope that makes sense. When you only get your kids 50% of the time you don't want them to spend most of it at nursery even when you're off work. He wants the time with them, she wants them in nursery as it's conemient for her and he pays the majority of it.