What happens if a court order to give a father access is ignored??

[logi]

My close relative has been involved with a access case with her young child for almost 3 years and this year there is a possibility that access may be given to the father.........the mother (my relation) will not under any circumstances be handing the child over ..................................................what would happen ??

The father at the age of 15 abused young girls over few months and was violent but has attended "courses" and "angermangement" and is now deemed "low risk"

[GypsyMoth]

It's likely it will be supervised to start

Anyway, the mother refuses? The court will have options....prison, community service, transfer of residency.... Or to and fro to court for another 3 years

[logi]

Yes we have been told about supervised but are totally against any contact .........can she appeal against the decision to give access ....the delaying would be a good option i guess as the older the child gets the better.

[mumblechum1]

Do you mean that the father was only 15 when he allegedly committed and was convicted of sexual offences?

because if that is all the mother has against him, tbh she will struggle to convince a court that her child is therefore not allowed to have a relationship with her father.

Did the mother know about the father's past when she decided to have a child with him?

I think I may be completely misreading the situation, but if you'd like to post a bit more, particularly about whether the father was ever convicted of anything, and how long ago, I or one of the other lawyers here will be able to give a view.

Whatever her reasons for refusing contact (it hasn't been access for about 20 years btw), if there is an order in place the court will firstly apply a penal notice ( a warning about the consequences of a breach of the order), and if she still refuses, she can be fined, imprisoned or made to do community service. Mothers v v v rarely go to prison for breaching the order.

[logi]

hi mumble yes the offence was at 15 but went to court at 18 .......has had domestic violence police involvement..........no she didnt know at the time..........father has been told to do anger management course because of violence and parenting course ....he has missed several appointments with course but was given another chance to complete which has almost.

I realise it stands for nothing in court but father is no good takes drugs and in with bad lot of friends ....... there is no way this child will ever be handed to this man,even though offence was 15 it involved threatening child with knife ,planned assults and some other sick details...this is such a worrying time for our family and access cannot happen.

[mumblechum1]

How long ago?

[logi]

mumble ....sorry forgot he pleaded guilty to the assaults on kids but claims he had to as was told too by solicitor..he was on sex offenders reg. for a period of time.

[logi]

he is 24-25 now

[mumblechum1]

Well, as I'm sure the mum will have been advised, in cases such as this, a Cafcass officer will investigate and make a recommendation as to what is in th child's best interests.

The presumption is that the child is entitled to contact to the father, but of course if there is any serious threat to the child's welfare, that would potentially trump that presumption.

The court would have to consider whether the father's actions ten years ago present a serious risk to the child today. If, as you say, he hasn't received anger management and hasn't attended parenting classes, which would indicate an acceptance of fault and an attempt to change, then that will go against him.

Even if Cafcass does recommend contact, if they have any serious concerns then they'll recommend that it should take place in a contact centre at least for a few months, up to a year, at which point everyone will go back to court for a review.

[mumblechum1]

I've had plenty of cases of dads who have well and truly messed up (one was a convicted murderer) who have nevertheless had contact to their children, because the messing up wasn't directly related to their ability to care for the children. I can't say whether your friend's case is one of those on the info provided.

[cutteduppear]

My DD's father was awarded contact in court when she was 3. After a while of trying to make it work I stopped it happening. I knew that he was engaging in illegal practices and using DD as cover but I couldn't have proved it in court.

Nothing happened to me, and she never saw him again. This was 15 years ago and I never had any trouble.

[logi]

Thankyou all for advice ...

cutteduppear... this is what will have to happen as there is no way the child is going to this man and hopefully things can be delayed for as long as possible (years ) i feel now we cant wait for her to be older.

Did your DD father push for access or try and take you back to court?

[cutteduppear]

My DD's father did take me back to high court. I was terrified. My barrister advised me that he would probably win some kind of contact.

On the day, he didn't even turn up. so the case was adjourned for him to restart, but he never did. He was deeply suspicious of the legal system so this worked in my favour.

However this didn't stop him posting me weird things, superglueing my house locks and ringing the house up to 60 times a day. I changed my phone number 4 times and kept moving house.
In the end I moved to a village where nobody knew me and changed my name. I stopped seeing all my old friends and didn't tell them where I'd gone to apart from one friend who I trusted. I watched my back whenever I took DD out in public.

We have now lived in the village for 13 years and we're happy here.

I believe that you can eke this out via the legal system and your own methods.
DD's father died when she was 14 so that solved everything. Now DD is in contact with her paternal grandmother, something she couldn't have before.

[logi]

cutteduppears...you were lucky that he didnt pursue it but i think this man will, but have thought along the lines of keep moving and name change my relative is very upset at the thought of this but i have said she will have to deal with it and keeping the child safe will be more than worth it in the end .....or at least until child is much older.

I am pleased you managed to settle and things worked out for you :)

[cestlavielife]

she will ahve to be preapred that court may grantcontact at a contact centre - but she could ask fo supervised and recorded contact with reports going abck to court before any move to outside contact centre.

look at local contact centres [[www.naccc.org.uk] for ones which have proper supervised and monitored conact and do reports for court

[cestlavielife]

//www.naccc.org.uk

[logi]

thanks cestlavielife........she wont be allowing any contact not even supervised as this just leads to unsupervised in the future and that will not happen.

[cutteduppear]

I think that all the upheaval was worth it. He did persue us, for years. It took 3 years to get clear of him knowing where we were.
When XP died I went back to using my real name in some places, it has really confused people!

[Santa5l1ttleHelper]

Just be careful you don't get into trouble for breaching court orders. The consequences of not respecting the court can be harsh. Contact HV, GP and any other agencies that can help to work alongside you. You will need support too. Try your local surestart centre (if you still have one) and get a parent support worker for your relative. There is help out there but you have to go and look for it. Don't just be stubborn, it won't help. I'm not legal but I'm not sure it supervised contact always has to lead to unsupervised. Good luck x

[logi]

cutteduppear yes sorry i meant through the courts obviously what you went through was very very difficult....

Santa.. sadly help isnt out there the support seems to be for the father due to his bad childhood and giving him chances this case has been going on for few years and relative has been told first letterbox contact ..then supervised then unsupervised ....all avenues have been looked at and now she is desperate :( ......wish more could be done ..so unfair. x

[Santa5l1ttleHelper]

I really feel for her and the family. What a terrible situation to be in, I wish I could offer something more helpful. All I do know is that supervised contact will only move to unsupervised if it does go well.
It all makes you feel like changing your name and moving to the Outer Hebredes to live in a cave doesnt it!

[mumblechum1]

Has he ever harmed the child in any way, whether physically or emotionally?

[logi]

santa yes it does....may be only possiblity too (moving ect.) it is very distressing for us all as a family..dont know where to turn ...have a few months to decide before court case (final) even her solicitor agrees with her .

mumblechum last contact was when child was a baby and relative was locked in house with baby and father was aggressive police were called ...no contact since .......then court proceedings began ...at one point his own solicitor said he is the most arrogant man shes ever met ....... and the judge said she didnt like him ..yet the law is on his side.

[GypsyMoth]

So what does the mother intend to do? Because you don't mess with the law

It's likely it will become apparent v quickly that the mother doesn't intend to comply..... This won't go down well. Believe me

[STIDW]

If after investigation the court orders indirect and supervised contact your relative would be well advised to comply. Supervised contact doesn't always lead to unsupervised contact. Often supervised contact ordered so courts can assess the situation. Sometimes there is a lack of commitment or true colours are shown and it works itself out. Hostility to all contact can be deemed unreasonable which won't help your relative or the child.

Imprisonment and community service are rare, in England & Wales there were about 50 committals a year before 2009 and 50 orders for community service in 2010. However, as I once warned a poster no one should think it can't happen to them. She disappeared mid thread and returned two weeks later having been sent down! There was another case when a mother was committed for three month and potentially faced a further sentence at the end.

[Santa5l1ttleHelper]

My children have just gone through some sessions of supervised contact and their father did not come out if it looking good. Put it this was my cafcass officer has said he will not be advising unsupervised contact anytime soon! Leopards don't change their spots x