Mumsnet Talk

Here.

It's too early in the morning to get my blood pressure up, but my response was ** off. Have you ever felt like you were going to split in two? No, because you're a man, and you've never bloody given birth!

Tosser.

Maybe if women weren't so bloody messed about with in labour with artificially induced labours and speeded up labours there wouldn't be such a need for drugs.

strangely enough I think that is part of what he is saying wmmc.

Sad he had to mix it up with a load of mysoginistic patronising wanky bollocks.

how in the world does pain prepare a woman for the responsibility of having a baby? No-one seems to be suggesting men need 18 hours of pain to become a good father.

Of course there are issues around epidurals and medical management of births but if he's been reported accurately the prof doesn't understand them.

Haven't read this but my gut feeling is he may be trying to say that women should be encouraged to listen to their bodies in labour and move appropriately. I doubt he was saying that women should not be allowed pain relief. We mess around with women's bodies in labour so much and as a result many have pain relief that they may not have needed if only they had been left alone.

Harnes the technology and the need for pain relief will go down. BUT if you still want that epidural you can have it (as I did).

Jolly he is saying that the NHS should stop routinely giving epidurals on demand and that

"Pain in labour is a purposeful, useful thing, which has quite a number of benefits, such as preparing a mother for the responsibility of nurturing a newborn baby."
TWAT

He's not saying no pain relief though is he, but fewer epidurals.

Well he sees pain as important for bonding

I think he has a nerve, to be honest.

PS

Dr Denis Walsh, for example, is a twat.

I think women should be informed of all the options then given a choice. The idea that midwives should refuse epidurals so woment are better prepared to nurture is ludicrous. I agree that fewer epidurals is a good thing, but am angered by the tone of his article and the way he talks of rites of passage.

>Well he sees pain as important for bonding

And the possibilities for a whole new thread unfurl. <need wicked devil icon>
What equivalent pain should be inflicted upon a father to ensure that the bonding process is as complete as the mother's?

Perhaps he would like to have his testicles removed with no pain relief. Then he can come back and talk about pain.

Epidural epidemic??? I begged and begged and begged for one and none was forthcoming cos there was no aneasthetist (sp) available.

I think they should do all medical operations without pain relief actually. It will be "good" for the patient.

Two words: Knob End.

SoupDragon, a little more thought please.
The process needs to last the average time of labour and build in intensity until it feels as if you are an extra in Alien. The one glued to the wall and about to hatch.

I agree with the underlying sentiment. Absolutely women should be given better ways of managing pain, yoga, hypnobirthing, water etc should be as freely available as gas and air in an ideal world. No suggestion of how this could be achieved and a load of patronising, damaging and misogynistic sentiments with which he can fuck the fuck off.

I didn't say they should be removed quickly...

I don't think we have an epidural epidemic - I was refused one as they didn't have enough staff

Perhaps women would cope better if they had 1:1 care with a midwife throughout labour instead of 1 midwife per 7 women

Yes, where are these freely available epidurals of which he speaks? I sort of had to have a spinal block seeing as dd was coming out ear first and therefore was royally stuck and an em cs was required. 2 fecking hours I lay there with 2.5 minute long contractions with about 20 seconds break inbetween waiting for the one anaesthetist in the western world to rock up and do his job.

This is outrageous. He can take a running jump as far as i'm concerned.

I agree that there should be better support during labour, more access to birthing pools etc - but that is the place to start. Not with restricting access to epidurals.

All that right of passage stuff is so hideously patronising, how fucking dare he.

well I agree with him, I never got any drugs when I adopted and I bloody needed them. Mind you if women should learn to deal with the pain then I assume he will be having anaesthetic free dentistry form now on?

The chief midwife is a man? Well, there you go.

Talk to the hand, knob end.

I am puzzled by this idea:

"Pain prepares women for the demands of motherhood"

In what way?

How many women actually have a totally natural labour with no interventions? I needed two ventouses as had two stuck babies. Despite walking around/eating etc etc they weren't coming out.

I will cut his genitals open without pain relief and see how he does.

Twat

Must go and read the link.. What is this man actually saying?