Little boy has been removed from hospital by his parents

(887 Posts)
Itsfab Fri 29-Aug-14 13:42:56

He is very sick, needs constant treatment. His parents have taken him to France.

I don't understand why the hospital didn't notice or alert the police for 6 hours.

The police won't comment on the parents being Jehovah's Witnesses.

It sounds wrong when the statement said he was removed without consent. The child is theirs, should be allowed to be in charge of him, but of course it is he that will lose his life if not cared for and that isn't in his best interests necessarily.

I hope he is found and can be cured.

Heels99 Fri 29-Aug-14 13:46:03

No, losing his life isn't in his best interests.....

Itsfab Fri 29-Aug-14 14:47:25

I knew someone would misunderstand me. If someone is in incredible pain and has no quality of life then doctors might think withdrawing treatment to allow the patient to pass away would be for the best.

AuntieStella Fri 29-Aug-14 14:50:56

"I don't understand why the hospital didn't notice or alert the police for 6 hours."

Because he was off the ward with his family as an ordinary part of his rehabilitation. It was only when he did not return as expected, attempts to contact the family had failed, and a search of the hospital hadn't located him, that the police were alerted.

MrsDeVere Fri 29-Aug-14 15:33:05

He has a brain tumour.
He has probably got to a point in his treatment where a blood transfusion is unavoidable.
They may have weighed up his chances of cure against what they feel will happen to him if he dies after receiving a bt and decided it was not worth it.

He has a brain tumour. The chances of cure are very small.
I do not agree with what their religion says about BT, in fact it upsets me greatly, but treatment for childhood cancer is brutal.

Perhaps they cannot face it?

Or perhaps they are taking him somewhere they think will perform bloodless surgery/treatment?

Some of the 'information' coming out is a bit odd. That he needs someone 'medically trained' to feed him. He has an NG tube and is fed via this. I would be amazed if his parents were not able to give him feeds by now.
That the battery on his feeding apparatus will run out soon.
In that case surely they would plug it in to an electrical source.

I want to hear the story from the parent's side before I make any judgement.

Itsfab Fri 29-Aug-14 15:37:12

It all just sounds so sad but yes, the reporting seems to be implying his parents are not acting in his best interests and that isn't fair unless the police know more than they are saying which is of course possible.

Heels99 Fri 29-Aug-14 15:45:57

The reports are suggesting parents not acting in child's best interests because it is likely he will die if not found therefore the police are keen to find him. What happens after that will likely be a court decision.

AuntieStella Fri 29-Aug-14 15:48:06

Yes, I wondered about whether the type of pump he uses could be attached to the mains (I suppose I depends on what sort of current it runs on, but you can get adaptors for all sorts of permutations as long as there's a cable).

It's more likely to be a problem if the feed he requires is hard to get hold of.

AuntieStella Fri 29-Aug-14 15:52:09

Media are now reporting that JW HQ in France have made a statement confirming they have not heard from the family, and have contacted all the Mission Halls in France alerting them. They will report to police and British consulate if family gets in touch with a Hall anywhere in France.

(Not sure if it is a good or bad thing that they said that publicly)

MrsDeVere Fri 29-Aug-14 15:56:59

They sound desperate to me.

We don't know why they have taken him. The police seemed keen to keep the JW thing out of the news.
But the media being what they are went to FB and took information off there.
Because a little boy with a brain tumour and a desperate family is not a big enough story is it?

They need an angle hmm

It sounded a shady sort of reason to give auntie and for some reason it annoyed me. Why not stick to the facts? If his feeds are going to run out why didn't they say that? It will be hard to get more unless they already have a stock and are planning to get him to a medical facility who will treat him in a way that they find acceptable (in line with their religious beliefs).

It depends how much planning went into this.

It is a dreadfully sad situation.

ClashCityRocker Fri 29-Aug-14 15:58:45

I don't think you can comment on a particular case without actually being in the situation, or at least in possession of all the facts.

I think it does raise questions over a parents rights to dictate children's medical treatment.

MrsDeVere Fri 29-Aug-14 15:58:53

X post auntie
sad

so now the family may feel they have nowhere to turn. AFAIK they have not broken any laws yet. There are no court orders on this child.

This needs to be handled with sensitivity.

Too much to hope for I suppose.

MrsDeVere Fri 29-Aug-14 16:04:15

We don't even know that is the case yet either do we clash ?

The media leaked the JW thing and now we are pretty much jumping to conclusions about why they have left.

(I include myself in that 'we')

But really all we know is that the family have taken their very, very sick little boy and left the country.

They may think that enough is enough.
This may be about JW
They could have previous history of neglect
They could be desperate and looking for a cure elsewhere.

It could be anything.

When child has cancer, at some point, all parents have to make decisions about treatment.

Whether to have it, to push for treatment not recommended by medics (eg abroad), to go on a trial, to stop, to carry on, to take a particular drug even though it may potentially kill their child, to withhold that drug even though it may potentially cure...it goes on and on and on.

AuntieStella Fri 29-Aug-14 16:05:00

I agree MrsDevere.

We don't know why they departed with him like this. And we don't know much about his condition and prognosis. Nor whether there were disputes about his care.

And we cannot know if they have a stockpile of the items he needs for his care right now.

All we know is that a highly vulnerable little boy cannot be located, and the authorities in at least 2 countries are trying to find him.

MrsDeVere Fri 29-Aug-14 16:11:35

I would hate for them to run to ground because they feel they cannot turn to the JW community.
The important thing is for him to be safe and the family found so they can work this out.

I also feel a bit weird posting about this. The JW anti blood thing is something I find deeply upsetting. I can't get my head round it at all.
But I also know the hell you are plunged into when your child is subjected to treatment for cancer.

So somewhat conflicted.

I think I am dreading the inevitable comments that will be made about this case. Last time it happened I found it very upsetting. People say stuff. They think they know but they don't.

I hope they are found. I hope something can be sorted out. Some reassurance given.

bonzo77 Fri 29-Aug-14 16:27:26

We obviously don't know all the facts. What about the possibility that they want to take their baby with them, and for him to die surrounded by his loving parents and siblings, somewhere quiet and beautiful, away from machines and doctors who do not respect their way of life. Who knows what arrangements they have made to keep him comfortable, pain free and happy? Who is to decide what constitutes "best interests"? Because we all know that "best interests" are not always the same thing as "alive at all costs".

MrsDeVere Fri 29-Aug-14 16:44:21

I would be surprised if medics would be concerned about a family taking a terminally ill child out of hospital to die.

It happens all the time.

It might be that the family feel they have come to the end of the road but the medics feel there is more to be done. Perhaps the parents feel that the treatment offered is not worth it?

But we don't know. It does appear from the limited information that this little lad is very very sick.

MerryMarigold Fri 29-Aug-14 18:50:04

They seem like a lovely family. There is a link online from his older brother, which is beautiful. I don't think this is some mother or father doing something mad/ crazy from pressure or stress. They must have good reasons...it's sad the meeja are involved now and ignorant people will be baying, prompted by the papers who rile people up so they can sell papers. All at the expense of this poor family.

hiddenhome Fri 29-Aug-14 21:04:44

You don't need a machine to PEG feed someone. You can do bolus feeds with a simple connecting tube and a syringe.

MrsDeVere Fri 29-Aug-14 21:35:28

He has an NG but yes you are right. You don't need a set up to do that.

Which is why i am puzzled at the emphasis they are placing on the feeding.

GimmeMySquash Fri 29-Aug-14 22:05:47

Maybe they are giving him frubes and are taking him to Disney land, as he is apparently terminal.

calzone Fri 29-Aug-14 22:12:03

The fact they are witnesses is irrelevant imho.
It has nothing to do with the story at all. The media just want to add more drama.

The blood thing with JW is also irrelevant.

Courts will always make minors a ward of court and give them blood if they deem it necessary.

JW's do not allow blood transfusions based on the teachings of the Bible which tells them to abstain from blood.
All the parents have to do is state that they would rather their child did not receive a blood transfusion.....the courts will do what they want to do anyway but it means that, once the parents have said No to a BT, their conscience is clean before God.

EverythingCounts Fri 29-Aug-14 22:13:48

The reporting has been very odd. I hope wherever he is, he can be given pain relief if he needs it at least.

MrsDeVere Fri 29-Aug-14 22:15:59

A point I made somewhere else.
I doubt if that many orders have to be made.
Parents generally do what needs to be done in these situations.

The police didn't release the JW information. The vultures did that. hmm

JoyceDivision Fri 29-Aug-14 22:18:24

That poor boy and his poor family are in my thoughts.

It's obvious there is so much information unknown or being left out of the reports

There but for the grace of god go I... to be in position of any loved one suffering, but a child, and being hunted, hounded and demonised before any full facts have been made clear, is horrendous

I hope the boy is safe, comfortable, in minimal pain, and surrounded by loveand people who are doing what is right for him

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