Hillsborough. Police did doctor evidence in a bid to avoid blame.

(523 Posts)
Darkesteyeswithflecksofgold Wed 12-Sep-12 01:21:14

A report in the Independent about the cover up. RIP to the people who lost their lives on 15th April 1989.
And condolences to the families who are still suffering.

www.independent.co.uk/sport/football/news-and-comment/exclusive-hillsborough--police-did-doctor-evidence-in-bid-to-avoid-blame-8126233.html

boschy Wed 12-Sep-12 11:36:53

thank you upsy - makes sense!! I'm not a football fan, nor a Liverpudlian, but god I still remember the horror of that day. Was watching the news this am with my 2 teenagers, they couldn't understand how it could have been allowed to happen.

Pagwatch Wed 12-Sep-12 11:37:20

Bottleofbeer

I really struggle with the fact that people believe the lies told about that day but I agree without gator many of the police - having watched the horror unfold and been either helpless to stop the deaths or worse, having been instructed to do things that made it worse - the urge to reinvent that day in your head must ave be overwhelming.

Randomfemale
Your FIL may have many understandable reasons to deny the awful truth that the force he worked for woefully letown the people they were meant to serve. But you do no one any service when you perpetuate things that have been proven to be lies and which are unimaginably awful for the still grieving families.

boschy Wed 12-Sep-12 11:45:00

Why did police officers who were asked to change their statements do so, and then stick with their statements? Job security? not allowed to talk to the press?

bottleofbeer Wed 12-Sep-12 11:47:59

Thanks smile I'm taking my kids to town this afternoon for the vigil, to help support the families and survivors. Yeah we've got a habit of holding a minute's silence because "me great auntie Elsie's budgie died yesterday" but I feel it's important to show solidarity on a day like today.

Pagwatch Wed 12-Sep-12 11:50:13

I think the urge to not be responsible was huge. I think the backdrop of hooliganism made the possibility that fans were involved seem likely and it took a change of gear hard.

Very quickly senior police and the press had blamed the fans, swathes of police were sticking to the story. I suspect being a loan voice that said 'hang on,that was a lie' must ave been difficult.

And most of the police were pawns in the whole thing. Their choice was blame the fans or align yourself with those who saw police as evil.

Upsy1981 Wed 12-Sep-12 11:53:46

I don't think they were given much choice. It seems to have been a complete whitewash from the top down. How can a PC with a family at home to feed be expected to fight against that? If you are interested I read Hillsborough The Truth by Phil Scraton. Really informative book and got my blood boiling especially over the issue regarding the time of death.

I know 3 people who were there, one being my dad. He was slightly injured and very shocked but it could have been a lot worse. I was only 8 and saw it unfold on the tv knowing my dad was at the match. I know now that my mum kept a lot of the panic hidden from me as you would. And the effects are still with those people today.

Upsy1981 Wed 12-Sep-12 11:55:25

Bottleofbeer, that made me laugh about the budgie!

Narked Wed 12-Sep-12 11:59:48

One of the things in the link that stands out is the lack of police radios. It's hard to imagine now in the age of mobile phones, but most of the police were completely out of touch with each other.

Those making decisions (on the turnstiles) were doing so without being able to see the effect of them (people being crushed) and when chaos errupted there was a total lack of leadership or direction and the individual police officers were inclined to disbelieve/distrust the fans and to actually blame them. In the abscence of leadership and information prejudice took over. Then the cover up swept into action when the senior officers realised what they had caused to happen.

bottleofbeer Wed 12-Sep-12 12:00:20

Ahhh, Upsy, this must be so important to you and your family today. I'm the black (red) sheep of the family, a loooong line of blues. It could have been any team that day.

boschy Wed 12-Sep-12 12:10:40

Yes, I agree that for the average PC it must have been totally overwhelming, very frightening, no leadership, no communications. And then perhaps if you are asked questions afterwards in the right (well, actually, wrong) way you start to question your own judgement about what you saw, and then start to believe what you are told to believe or perhaps what you want to believe.

I will look out that book upsy.

RIP and condolences again.

threeOrangesocksmorgan Wed 12-Sep-12 12:16:18

so glad that at last the families are getting answers.
blaming the fans is sick imo.
there was a woman on the tv who had lost 2 children. one was 15

threeOrangesocksmorgan Wed 12-Sep-12 12:19:29

bottleofbeer amazing post

amothersplaceisinthewrong Wed 12-Sep-12 12:21:18

I remember watching on TV, with my six month old son and was totally shocked.
I hope the families of the bereaved and the survivors get some proper answers.

How anyone can believe what the police say happened that day is beyond me.

We saw the fans driving to Sheffield that morning, scarves and flags waving, happy as larry to enjoy FA Cup football on a lovely clear day.

We saw them coming home too. No flags, no scarves, no noise. Just the shocked faces of those who had witnessed a totally preventable tragedy.

JFT96

SammySquirrel Wed 12-Sep-12 12:32:08
Growlithe Wed 12-Sep-12 13:08:12

They tested the alcohol levels of dead children in order to try to blame them for their own deaths. Shocking.

Pagwatch Wed 12-Sep-12 13:12:25

David Cameron has just given a full, profound and sincere apology on behalf of the government and the previous governments in the house.
The independent inquiry has vindicated entirely all the concerns expressed by the victims families.
The report reveals attempts by many including the police to blame the entirely innocent victims.

There may now be a fresh enquiry.

Kayano Wed 12-Sep-12 13:13:56

So what happens now? Is that it or start over?

Accept the police were to blame or launch another enquiry? I hope it gets resolved soon sad

Pagwatch Wed 12-Sep-12 13:20:30

I think the original has to be scrapped. They have to start over.

The extent of the over up being revealed is shocking tbh.

SammySquirrel Wed 12-Sep-12 13:37:16

The families want proper, factual and truthful inquests into the deaths of their loved ones. They want the genuine cause of death and time of death recorded, not convenient made up ones. They don't want to be told everyone was dead by 3.15 when they know full well their loved one was still alive. They want to know the precise details of every factor which contributed to their loved one's death.

Rockchick1984 Wed 12-Sep-12 13:39:08

Random I hope you never lose a loved one only to then be told it was their own fault, despite glaring evidence to the contrary. It's sick individuals like your FIL who have changed their statements to make it look like they were not at fault to save their own necks at the expense of grieving families. It's people like yourself believing these evil lies who have disparaged the evidence and perpetuated the view that these victims somehow "deserved" what they got. Have my first ever biscuit

I am so pleased with the findings today, I just sincerely hope the new inquest is granted. Both the individuals AND the overall bodies who covered this up need to be held accountable for their devastating actions.

JFT96

Doyouthinktheysaurus Wed 12-Sep-12 13:42:12

My thoughts are with the families and friends of the 96 and the survivors of the disaster today.

The actions of the Police have been an absolute disgrace and the fact that it has taken 23 years to get to this point is unbelievably shocking.

boschy Wed 12-Sep-12 13:43:05

I think Dave was sincere; I hope the enquiry is now a proper resolution.
Terrible rain in Liverpool...

LittleBlackDress Wed 12-Sep-12 13:49:26

random my DH and his father were there that day. They could not disagree more.

My DH had a little cry when he heard the announcement and apology live on the radio today.

JFT96

Losingitall Wed 12-Sep-12 13:57:31

Random has disappeared then?

Good!angry

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