Child benefit - when it goes, do my pension credits vanish too...

(113 Posts)
bb99 Wed 06-Oct-10 14:30:20

Just curious.

I think that SAHPs who claim CB are entitled to National Insurance credits.

So, when the CB goes in 2013, will I lose any pension rights or credits too? sad

If so, had better revise the divorce to be a better off family plan and start being nicer to DH grin

jellybeans Mon 12-Nov-12 22:21:45

It is sad that some people describe SAHMs as never having done 'a days work in their life'. I heard this phrase recently about an elderly mother of 3. In my eyes caring for young children is work albeit unpaid. It would be work if it was someone else's child....
My Grandmother was a SAHM and never did paid work after marriage but raised five kids. She did a lot of voluntary work when the kids were older and enabled her husband to work whatever hours he could to gain a top job. I would say some people that 'work' have it easier than SAHP. Many people shirk on internet or laze about on the job. Paid work doesn't mean hard work yet unpaid could be. It is sad that some people value only paid work as it devalues SAHP, volunteers, people with learning difficulties, elderly, disabled people etc.

commonsensey Sat 10-Nov-12 21:25:19

no I am afraid you cant count bringing up children as 'caring' in this sense. how much time off work is really needed (physically) to have a child - a couple of weeks? Anything more is a lifestyle choice. And why would you assume that disabled people should get it, don't they already get benefits associated with disability? We might be sympathetic, but saying that they should get every benefit going is a tad patronising.

legostuckinmyhoover Mon 01-Nov-10 21:59:23

thats kind of her hmm

byrel Mon 01-Nov-10 21:58:22

Loudlass I think earlier in her posts Hudd says she would lower the NI threshold

CardyMow Mon 01-Nov-10 21:24:47

But what about if you have a disability, that you don't qualify for disability benefits with, you can only work PT due to this disability, and the only job you can find that will employ you is for minimum wage. A 20 hr a week job at minimum wage is under the NI threshold. You are disabled. You are working. Yet despite this you don't qualify for a full state pension? hmm.

So even if your DP/DH works FT and pays NI, and you have something (be it childcare/disability/SN dc/caring for elderly relatives/combo of all 4 in my case) and you try to work PT around all that...you don't get a full state pension??

baildonwen Mon 01-Nov-10 16:36:27

I think Huddspur is right if you are going to have this extra tax in order to pay for the state pension then you should actually have to pay it in order to get the state pension.

LilyBolero Mon 01-Nov-10 13:09:04

beobelle, yes of course you can, BUT, the point is that people who aren't working, aren't necessarily non-contributors - and so it seems rough to then deny them the full state pension. That was my point. From my point of view, if the pension credit system wasn't in place, I would have to work far more than I do (I work part-time at home, don't earn enough for NI contributions though), so would be far more reticent to give up precious time with the baby to go and help out in school. And anyone working fulltime would be unable to go into schools during the day anyway.

I really do think contribution should be rewarded, not just number of £££s put in.

beobelle Mon 01-Nov-10 12:53:40

This is an interesting thread, I do see where Huddspur is coming from with regards to the Government telling everyone that the NI they pay is going towards their pension but that it is also going towards other peoples state pensions who aren't working or paying NI but are recieving NI credits. I also see where she is coming from in regards to some women using children as a reason not to work and that this needs to be discouraged and this certainly would disincentivise this.
Lily getting involved in helping the community is something you can do as well as working and raising children so I don't really accept that argument.

ISNT Mon 01-Nov-10 09:53:25

huddspur do you agree with paid maternity leave?

LilyBolero Mon 01-Nov-10 09:51:15

huddspur, you have ignored the bit of my post that points out that many people contribute in other ways - volunteering in school being an obvious example. If you removed the NI credits system, you would need to plough a lot more money into the education budget to replace the time many parents give for free at present. School trips would become unviable, reading standards (particularly for those struggling) would plummet, school swimming wouldn't be able to happen etc etc. And that's only one area. You can't just punish people who are being 'useful' members of society. And bringing up children is a very 'useful' thing to do too - they after all will keep the economy going after the current workforce retires, and without a viable economy we have no hospitals, police etc.

ISNT Mon 01-Nov-10 09:18:24

You say you don't agree with abortion but frankly the scheme you are proposing would result in a big increase in terminations.

ISNT Mon 01-Nov-10 09:17:24

Do you basically think that only very wealthy women people should be allowed to have children? Your idea that women should work up until they give birth and return to work immediately after they have given birth is impossible for many. What about breastfeeding?

It seems that women who dare to have children need to be punished. Why?

ISNT Mon 01-Nov-10 09:11:11

I don't understand why you insist that in the current situation you would remove NI credits from people who are taking time out to have children, and women on maternity leave, but keep it for everyone else.

You keep saying what you want in an idea world, but the situation we have is not that. In this world lots of people who are not working receive NI credit, but still you would remove them from women on maternity leave and from women (it usually is women) who are taking some time out to look after children.

I don't understand why you want to penalise mothers in this way. I can't see the logic - there isn't any. You seem to just particularly dislike women who have children.

All this not having sympathy for elderly women in poverty - why not? Some of them come from a time when they were not allowed to work after children - why punish them for this?

huddspur Mon 01-Nov-10 08:29:54

LilyBolero I would keep the basic state pension that is given out to those who have no other form of income in old age, I just wouldn't give them a full state pension.

LilyBolero Mon 01-Nov-10 00:14:05

But if you haven't paid NI, what are you supposed to live on when you reach pensionable age? It's all very well saying 'don't give credits', but our society is one that doesn't (in theory) allow people to actually starve to death.

I tend to think that there are ways of contributing to society that are more general than just financial. For example, I am a SAHM, but I do some part time work (not enough to pay NI though), I look after our 4 kids, I also volunteer in school 2 or 3 afternoons per week - reduce everything to pounds and pence and you lose a wealth of contribution. If you look at the amount of time given to schools by SAHMs and calculated how much that would cost in £££ to hire in, it would be obvious that they were contributing in ways they are able. To then punish by removing pension is punitive and wrong.

vixel Sun 31-Oct-10 23:48:29

I agree with Huddspur why should you be given NI contributions when you're not working and not paying NI.

byrel Sun 31-Oct-10 22:08:59

I see why you would want to clamp down on people doing what your parents have done but I still think you are taking it too far the other way. Although I do agree that some women use having children as an excuse not to work.

huddspur Sun 31-Oct-10 21:58:43

I don't think I am being draconian you see byrel, I just don't see why people should get a full state pension that they haven't paid for. My mum has never worked in her life and my dad hasn't worked since I was 6 (I'm 24) and the idea that in this time both of them have been recieving NI credits that help contribute to their state pension shocks me.

byrel Sun 31-Oct-10 21:54:46

Thanks for clarifying ISNT

ISNT Sun 31-Oct-10 21:40:12

I don't think that people get it while in prison. The blurb says they can be credited if their convictions are subsequently quashed.

byrel Sun 31-Oct-10 21:36:53

Interesting discussion between ISNT and Huddspur whilst I see where Huddspur is coming from I think she is being a bit draconian although I find the idea that someone in prison is getting NI credits outrageous.

huddspur Sun 31-Oct-10 21:25:13

ISNT I don't find your views repulsive, I just don't agree with them

Sickandsicker Sun 31-Oct-10 21:21:11

I'm not sure people need to be so concerned about getting credits for a state pension these days, with the Pension Credit for those who don't have enough NI credits but are on a low income.

My neighbour had very few credits as she only moved to this country towards the end of her working life. She didn't qualify for a pension but got Pension Credit. It's a higher amount than the state pension too (although I think most people who get state pension also have a private one so they are better off overall). It's much higher than standard income support though.

huddspur Sun 31-Oct-10 21:20:41

I don't have it in for women I just don't think that you shouldn't get NI credits that count towards your NI contribution when you aren't paying anything towards that pension. Currently they are being given something for nothing.

SnoozyLucy Sun 31-Oct-10 21:18:12

There's nothing wrong with it per se but there are people that can't make NI contributions that should be protected against losses in their state pension. Choosing to care for a child past the time when you can pay NI contributions isn't necessarily a bad thing! Nor is being out of work if you really can't help it, or childcare around you being so expensive that it doesn't pay to work, especially at the 'pre-1' stage. Some people make a significant non-financial contribution to their community (or at least their families who will then grow up to make a financial contribution to the community) and if they need help to balance that up against their future then why not?

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