Teacher has just admitted he can't find work hard enough for my son - need to speak to head - but what should I say?

[DumbledoresGirl]

I have just been to a parents' consultation and ds2's teacher has just admitted to me (at the same time admitting he should not be admitting this!) that he can't find work hard enough for my son to do in Maths. Ds2 was classified as G&T in Maths in his last school but this school does not seem to have any G&T programme in place and has never done much to meet ds2's needs.

As a former teacher myself, I tried to pass on tips to his teacher at the parents'meeting in October but I am not sure if the teacher has taken on baord what I suggested. He really seemed quite despairing today of every being able to meet ds2's needs. I asked if there was a school policy in place but he said no. I asked if he would mind if I went to the head, and he said no, but please could I not drop him in it (!) He is a lovely man, I don't want to "drop him in it" but I do want my son educated.

I think dh and I have to go and see the head, but can anyone with G&T experience (teachers or parents) please help me with suggestions of what we should be asking the head/expecting of the school. I am not looking for solutions to be done at home eg Maths tutor, teaching him myself. I want the school to deliver my son's education.

Should all schools have a G&T policy? Should ds2 have been identified? What could be expected from the school if he was identified? What else can I ask?

[Socci]

Message withdrawn

[DumbledoresGirl]

They did that in Year one (old school). he went from reception maths straight to top group in year 2 maths and was still top of the group. I am not boasting here - just stating a fact. ds2 is very gifted at maths.

Now he is in year 4 and going nowhere. I was astonished the teacher admitted what he did to me, but not surprised that that is the case really. Only one teacher has ever challenged him mathematically and that was when he was in the top Year 2 group despite being only in year one himself.

[Socci]

Message withdrawn

[DumbledoresGirl]

Good point bigwuss about the Maths co-ordinator being there. I don't even know who that is!

What has been arranged for your son sounds as though it would work quite well for my son too. I know they won't move him classwise as they have already said no to that.

[DumbledoresGirl]

Socci - not sure about the head. She was not sympathetic when dh complained that he couldn't get to any of the parent consultations in October because they were too early in the evening for him. He wanted to be there, participating in his children's education, but the last appointments were too early. When he complained, the head was stroppy. If she remembers that incident, I don't think she will be very receptive to us at all!

[Socci]

Message withdrawn

[DumbledoresGirl]

So, is it your opinion that every school is supposed to have a G&T policy for parents to read and the school to follow? I have been out of teching so long I am no longer sure what is required and what is only desirable these days.

I admit to feeling sorry for the teacher in question but that really isn't the point here. I know that if I were teaching in that school, I would be his superior (I was senior management when I left teaching) and I can see from a professional POV that he needs supporting. But I myself am no longer a professional and I can't exactly swan into the head's office and start acting like I am one.

[twinkle5]

I am currently teaching year 6 and have a child in my class who is very gifted when it comes to maths. I extend him by giving problem solving activities and investigations (but the maths topic used is usually the same as the rest of the class in any given week). Maths is a tricky one though, because if truly 'gifted & talented' (which it sounds like your son is), then they are usually streets ahead and understand anything taught! Short of all these children heading straight to sitting their maths gcse while still in junior school, we just have to try and give them a range of real life investigations and problems (imho).
I don't see the benefit of a child working in the next year group up- I think that their own teacher should be able to differentiate the work and keep them with their peers. As you said, they are likely to go straight to the top of which ever class they are put in!
Sorry- not much help!

[MrsPhilipGlenister]

keep bumping this for doddle - she is a teacher herself and has a son in Yr 3 who is G&T in maths who is now taught by teachers from the local secondary school because he's just off the scale for primary maths.

[spudmasher]

Have you tried looking on the website of your local education authority to see what they say?

Where I teach, schools are expected to have a G and T policy and all policies are available for parents to read.

In my school we have a G and T teacher who provides enrichment for needy children by withdrawing them from the class. He also provides homework for the children and advice for their teachers as well as meeting parents regularly.

[beckybrastraps]

The LEA will have a subject advisor (or some such job title) who should be able to help with providing curriculum appropriate enrichment resources.

[LilRedWG]

I was always a year ahead in primary school, and when I got to the final year of juniors I repeated everything I did the year before, rather than going up to senior school - as I wasn't old enough! At least schools now realise that children can be ahead of their age and may be able to act appropriately.

[DumbledoresGirl]

Thanks for all the ideas/advice. I will make a note of it all so I can suggest things to the head.

In ds2's last school, an advisor from the county did help one teacher come up with more challenging activities for ds2 - along the lines of open ended investigation tasks rather than the next year's curriculum - but that was his old school, who seemed more into the whole challenging G&T pupils than his present school.

I wouldn't say ds2 was any sort of a genius, but he does seem to have an uncanny knack for instantly understanding any mathematical concept shown him. Dh does much harder concepts with him when they play adult games of strategy and ds2 has no difficulty understanding them. His older brother (ds1) came top in his year in Maths when they did practice SATs this term, but anything he can do, ds2 can also do.

[snorkle]

Message withdrawn

[Piffle]

DDG my ds went through this - G+T and esp at maths.
He went into classes a yr above for maths from yr 3, got given worksheets and curiously enough japanese number puzzles, much like sudoku.
FWIW we took him to ottakers and just bought him whatever ks2-3 workbooks he wanted, he worked his way through those in class as well.

He is at a grammar school now and they have no issues extending him work wise, he is on target to do maths GCSE 2 yrs early BUT the school offer stats papers instead so that they advanced students do not run out of maths at school.
they do loads of good maths comps, junior maths challenges etc

In primary schools G+T provision is varied.
We found it easier to work with the teacher and supply work ourselves.
We did put ds into Kumon maths as it was just another way of doing things but he did outgrow that pretty quickly as well.

[giraffeski]

Message withdrawn

[DumbledoresGirl]

Well, dh and I went to see the head today. Apparently ds2 is on the school's G&T register but the head couldn't give us an example of one thing that had been done to address his needs in Maths, so what is the point of the register I wonder? Anyway, she is now aware of our concerns and we wait for action with bated breath. Than you again for your advice/experiences.

[doddle]

Hi DumbledoresGirl

I've just found this thread. Like Dino says my DS1 sounds very like your DS2.

We always say that he was born understanding everything mathematical and that you just seem to need to remind him of things and he understands them instantly.

DS1 is very fortunate though because he has me at school, and I'm the Maths coordinator, and we have a regular G&T maths teacher.

Things that we have in place for DS1 at school that you could suggest to you school are:

Elevation to another year's maths group. DS1 is in the top set in Y5, he should be in the top set in Y6 but our Y6 are not an easy year group this year. I also teach the top set in Year 5 and i'm confident of my own ability to stretch him and keep him interested. There are also a couple of other children in my set who have very similar abilities to him.

We have teacher who works with our able mathematicians in groups once a week on puzzles and problem solving. DS1 also sees him individually once a fortnight and they work on ongoing projects. They keep in touch by email and are working on a project on fractals at the moment.

We have made contact with one of our local secondary schools who support DS1 by doing some individual work with him and by liaising with us with suitable work for him. Because this is the secondary school that he will hopefully attend they will be aware of what his needs will be later on.

It would be useful for the school to contact the borough G&T advisor, they may have some useful suggestions and know of other children in other schools who could share some sort of provision.

Does the school have membership of the Mathematical Association or the Association of Maths Teachers? They are good sources of extension activities and advice.

Does the school take part in the Primary Maths Challenge or the World Class tests? These are not long term fixes for the problem but are at least interesting activities to attempt.

There are excellent courses for teachers run by BEAM on extending higher achievers. They also sell a lot of excellent resources.

I'm now just typing things as they come into my head!

If I think of anything else I'll add it later, but feel free to CAT me.

[DumbledoresGirl]

Thanks for your long post doddle. During our extensive talk with the head, she did not mention a single definite thing the school could do to help ds2. She said he was on the list of G&T for the school and that the school had links with local secondaries who offered occasional days for bright primary pupils. Ds2 was picked to go on one of those, but the activities he did were scientific and artistic so I don't see how they related to his Maths ability!

She also pointed out that next year, when he is in Year 5, he would benefit from the streaming that takes place in the school for Years 5 and 6. Dh and I anticipate that that will mean he covers the Year 6 curriculum in Year 5, but then what will happen when he is in Year 6?

I don't think she had any answers tbh. of course it was all left that she would look into the issue, but I am not confident that much will be done.

Meanwhile, I have bought some KS2 Maths practice papers which I am going to get him to do, just to see how good he really is. They might be useful evidence too, although tbh, the school doesn't seem to need convincing that ds2 has a gift for Maths, but does need convincing they need to do anything about it!

[cazzybabs]

I use the NRICH website (if you google it it should come up) to get probelms for a problem solning group for my g and t group. Could you do some of these at home?

Also why can your ds not have different class work - work at year 6, 7 level. For example, I was teaching year 3 and would have my top top children working on year 5-6 stuff. OK I was not really streching them during the whole class teaching on the carpet but was during the group work. Do they have an LSP who could take him out a few times a week to practise mental maths?

Is is a private or state school? If it is state I am surprised they have not accessed advisors who could suggest some things?

[flamingtoaster]

This is a very common problem. If the school cannot arrange for suitable work to be sent up from the local secondary school on a regular basis then as Doddle suggests try speaking to your LEA's Gifted and Talented Advisor. If it seems that nothing formal can be put in place for your son then you could try suggesting that he will do the work set for the class (which he will manage in about five minutes flat) and then move on to work you will send in with him. Say you will mark the work you send in so it is not putting any additional work/pressure on the teacher. This offer will either ensure your son gets work which is at the standard he is capable of (set by you) - or the teacher will be so horrified at the thought that suitable work will be provided for him. This strategy does work.

[snorkle]

Message withdrawn