Appealing about a relative being discharged

[SalaciousCrumb]

Hi, my DB suffers severely from paranoia, and he's been signed off by mental health services as he is non-compliant with his medication/won't engage with them. He is at my parents house every day - they are 84 and 85 and have care needs themselves. The advice is for him to go back to the GP, which he won't do.

There is no help for my parents, apart from family - they are unable to care for him, and due to his illness he has no empathy, often shouting abuse

Does anybody know if there is an appeals process to get a relative involved with MH services? Any advice we can get from anywhere?

Thanks in advance.

[Wheretheresawill1]

Was he under section? Nearest relative plus gp and another medic can apply for section. If he was on a 2 or 3 previously then he can be placed under a 3 again for treatment

[dontrunwithscissors]

I'm not sure, but can you request a carer's assessment from social services (given it sounds like your parents are effectively his carers)? I'm sure I've heard of something like that. Sorry to not be of much more use.

[PotteringAlong]

If he's harassing your parents can they call the police?

[NanaNina]

Does your brother have a diagnosis of paranoia or is that a symptom of a psychotic illness, which seems more likely. It's difficult if he won't engage with MH services, but if he has a psychotic illness he could well be sectioned under the MH Act. You could try MIND or RE-THINK who will probably have advice if you can give them more information.

Your parents shouldn't have to put up with this abuse at their age, but they probably wouldn't call the police as this is their son and it has probably been going on for a long time. Can you do anything to prevent him abusing your parents.

[NotAJammyDodger]

I wondering if you could get the council involved to protect your parents from DB as vulnerable adults due to their age? May be an alternative approach?

[SalaciousCrumb]

I really appreciate the replies. My parents are frail, with mum struggling to get around on a zimmer frame and she's recently had a fall. They've had some verbal abuse today.

wheretheresawill my dad has been told by mental health services that db won't be sectioned unless he 'does something bad' and he won't go to the GP, so they say there's nothing they can do.

don'trun at last I've got mum and dad to complete a carers self assessment for carers of mentally ill people (through the local authority), they should be in contact very soon I hope.

potteringalong my db has phoned the police due to his mental distress, feeling there are plots against him, he's even used bad language, but they just ignore him. I am thinking of calling 101 and asking for advice - does threatening behaviour and verbal abuse aimed at older poeple mean they have to do something..I don't know.

nananina yes the paranoia is a symptom of his psychotic illness. They are not interested in sectioning him. He has been sectioned several times in the past and have discharged him after tribunals. He argues with them about the nature of his illness, he is a scientist. He says he's been misdiagnosed and hates the medication. He's not taken any for 3 months. There's a long history. He's been ill for a long time. I don't think there's anything I can do to stop him from being abusive, I can't be at their home all the time due to dc and work, but I can listen to him when he wants to talk.

jammiedodger I have reported the situation to Adult Safeguarding, and their advice to dad is to change the locks, don't let him in. They don't feel able to do that, he is their son, and even if they did, they are frail and cannot deal with the aggression. I have some knowledge of Adult Services, and they seem to shy away from becoming involved when people have mental capacity and have made a certain choice

So mental health services won't do anything, the GP won't do anything and the police won't do anything. It leaves me wondering what this 'bad' is that has to happen before they get involved again

I am hoping the carers association can give some guidance at least. Thanks all for replies.

[elementofsurprise]

I've ummed and ahhed about writing this, so please take with a bucketload of salt. I do not know anything about the situation or your brother bar the little info here. I am about to approach this in a completely leftfield way and may be utterly barking up the wrong tree... I am someone who has observed and experieced the workings of mental health and found it lacking, so, yeh....

Obviously your brother shouldn't be being abusive to your parents, and protecting them makes sense. However, regarding DB...

I'm wondering what his actual diagnosis is. You dont have to say, I'm just wondering whether they've said "paranoia", or is paranoia is an actual named symptom of something else, or whether he just appears paranoid and it is assumed to be part of his illness. I'm wondering this because it's hard to grasp the full range of his difficulties and what may be helpful/approach to take.

The fact that he's successfully appealed sections is also interesting. I suppose what I'm thinking is, suppose he's not massively paranoid, just a little and some of what he says is right? It's so easy to view people in the light of a diagnosis and forget the real person and experiences. But maybe he is acting odd (for want of a better word) because of the emotions and behavioural responses they provoke, as oppose to actually suffering some kind of psychosis. In which case being on a ward dosed up on anti-psychotics is going to be distressing and unhelpful. (Distressing for anyone tbh but for some may be helpful.) Those meds can have serious side effects... one can see that with emotions running high and being deprived of your liberty may well feel like, for example, people are trying to poision you and misunderstanding everything... which could be conveniently labelled paranoia and dosed with more meds...

As for "won't engage" heh that is their term, not yours, I think? It's a favourite... it means "won't engagae on OUR terms" which is slightly different.

I wonder what your brother would say if given the chance to explain his situation and illness from his viewpoint? And how he feels about MH treatment? I'm guessing he'd probably need encouraging away from ranting and more into a thoughtful descriptive thing... You may have already done this of course.

And then the law can be laid down, boundaries etc. regarding your parents. I cant help but wonder if, for your DB a more holistic approach away from the system might be helpful. Hobbies, days out etc.

I haven't a clue whether any of this is helpful, and I probably am sound mad . I suppose I'm writing it just in case it's relevant, rather than thinking it necessarily is.

All the best