Unsupervised access to my kids for my ex-husband with mental health issues?

[mummyjones1977]

I posted on here earlier this year, after my husband's second suicide attempt of the year, and found your comments very helpful.

My husband suffered from depression from December 2009 onwards. As soon as his depression kicked in he dropped all responsibility. Stopped going to work, lost interest in the children, just wanted to be mothered by me and anybody else whoi would put up with him. I fought and fought to keep life, and Christmas in particular, normal for the kids. Husband's depression worsened resulting in 2 suicide attempts, for which he was quite unrepentent, even though the 2nd attempt was such that I came home with the kids (2 and 5 years old) to find him half dead on the bathroom floor. Husband eventually went in to psychiatric care for 6 weeks in April 2010, and at the end of that I said I couldn't cope with him coming home - he had to get properly better. The children (and me) had been through enough. He seemed relieved by this and said he would get himself better then win his family back. However, once he came out of hospital he was like a starnger - angry, threatening, bad tempered. He said he didn't want me and the kids back after all. And I have to say that I could have got over the suicide attempts etc, it was this new Mr Angry that I couldn't cope with. We therefore got divorced on the grounds of his unreasonable behaviour with the divorce finalised in Oct 2010.

Arrangements for children were left quite fluid. The children were to live with me and he was to have 2 hours access a week, reviewed as he got better. No court order was made. I thought access was going well. Access has always been on a supervised basis. I am around but in the background. If he comes to visit us in the house I'm rarely on the same floor as him and the kids. All trust has gone and he always takes the path of least resistance when it comes to looking after the kids, so they are allowed to play with screwdrivers etc (I do step in then and take the screwdrivers away!). We have even done a few trips out but I always stay in the background and let him lead.

Ex-husband now wants un-supervised access but I am not ready. I find it hard to trust him after the year he has put us through, and am still not satisfied that he is 100% well. Can you really get over mental illness that quickly. I always have in my mind that man with mental health issues who jumped off a balcony with his kids and killed one of them. Ex sister-in-law has depression and frequently relapses - whose to say ex won't?

As I am not yet ready to consider unsupervised access, ex has now started legal proceedings - I'm not sure how much more of this I can take. He has made my life hell for most of the last year, and I can't see an end to it. I do not want unsupervised access for him yet - what do you all think> What are his chances of getting unsupervised access, how do I avoid going to court, how would you feel letting him take your children?

[madmouse]

In family proceedings, and in fact in all legal proceedings, the interest of the child comes first, which means that your feelings and ex-h's have to stay out of the equation.

I assume you have a solicitor? Write down a list of your concerns (ie he lets them play with dangerous things, he doesn't keep them out of harms way, he doesn't seem stable enough etc) and discuss it with your solicitor.

Don't get too hung up on preventing going to court. The only way to prevent that is for you to give in to him it would seem and if you are not ready then don't.

A court case is a chance for professionals to get involved and you should be listened to.

Is there a way for him to have more supervised access (2hours is very little) perhaps supervised by someone else so that the stress is off you? - does he have parents that you trust? Can he seem them at their home?

[cestlavielife]

have been and am going thru similar. the down followed by up with anger/agression. currently a severe down and in fact we have had no contact from exP since end october. (after months of him "up" v bullying/demanding to see dc every day etc) . have seen signs of life driving past his flat. am concerned he may try something...

agree that going to court may be best way as you will get profressionals involved. you cannto do this alone. you need support of profressioanls/CAFCASS/SS etc . CAFCASS can talk to his medical people - you cannot present medical evidence.

you may also be able to get CAFCASS supervised /contact centre contact.

as you now divorced and fully separated, it may be better for contact to take place elsewhere, supervised by someone else. supervising yourself does not give you any break and does not put the responsibility onto him.

i tried the supervising at home thing - the anger came out out then. violently.

message me if you want to talk more in detail. i have found court much less intimidating than i thought and actually a way to keep things formalised and under profressioanl scrutiny - so it isnt just my word.

let him start the legal proceedings. it will likely end up with a section 7 report being ordered as you can present your concerens. and tehre is reocrd of his pvs MH issues. however -0 if he is on an up and can prsent well and "cured" then you may have problems raising those concerns - dyou need some evidence of his concerning behviours. is tehre someone who can testify to that? have you expresssed your concerens to professional eg your GP, Social workers etc?

if jsut your word agaisnt his and he is on an up then do speak to a solicitor about how you can present your concerns so they are listened to...

keep a careful log from now of how contact goes and your concerns - you will end up with CAFCASS involved as you have clear evidence of significant MH issues .

was there any record/witnesses to his anger /threatening behaviour?

the children are very young -which on the one hand means you can express concerns but on the other what they say/describe if they interviewed by CAFCASS cannot be entirely reliable.

[SparklingExplosionGoldBrass]

TBH you need it on record and formalised. Whether or not his distressing behaviour is his 'fault' or something he can't help is irrelevant: you need to prioritize the DC and yourself over him.
ANd do bear in mind that, whatever the court orders, if he starts behaving oddly or upsetting the DC there are not many sanctions the court can use against you and what there are can take a long time to come into effect (if, for instance, the court orders contact and on the day he turns up drunk or clearly in an abnormal state, you just take the DC home - if he instigates further legal action, you get your solicitor to plead your case: that he is acting in a way that you judge unsafe for the DC etc).
He may get better, his treatment may be effective in time and he may be able to be a great co-parent. IN the meantime, in all your dealings with him, try to remain calm and remind him that you are putting the DC first, that's all, and when he's better he can see more of them. However if he does get aggressive, report it every time.

[GypsyMoth]

Yes been through this with my own ex. CAFCASS in my case were very good and got the court to demand a forensic psychiatric asessment. This proved NO depression but a personality disorder

He has no contact now at all due to failing to keep to supervised contact/phone contact and failing to turn up in court.

My ex threatened and attempted to kill me, was imprisoned for various offences etc, so it was not just against me' that he was a threat

He also threatened to 'take the kids' in his next suicide attempt........ Only muttered it to me once,years ago, but was taken very seriously by the courts.

[cestlavielife]

anotehr reason to go thru court/proper contact centres etc is that you are out of the picture as far as decisions on contact are concerend - i always felt that should someone else dictate that the children should be given unsupervised access - then i will know it wont be my fault if things go wrong... is a horrible way of looking at it but the only way.

in fact after two years of hearings and CAFCASS reports and supervised contact (which went well, he got glowing reports) etc (be warned - it goes on forever!) we reached a final order whereby he would have supervised contact with a eprson we both agreed to (so friends, family outside contact centre) with a provision for "other contact as agreed by both parties". which ultimately, left me/we with the say so on when contact should be supervised or not.

so...we gradually progressed to unsupervised up to october...

but after events during half term when dc became scared of his behaviour, and it was clear he was heading for a low again; i informed him we would revert to supervised contact until i had confirmation from his GP etc that he was seeking help. solicitor also confirmed this was ok to cut contact in the circumstances (it really does help to have a solicitor and a proper formal record of pvs incidents/concerns etc)

so the whole court process has really helped.

it doesn stop the cr&p, but gives a sense that you are doing the right thing.

right now - it is down to your word against his. people can recover from MH issues and can parent ok with MH issues. without formal recognition of the issues you will need to push to get them recorded and that is why going thru court and getting reports done may be the best protection for you and the DC. so if it is deemed he is fully recovered and ok - you have that in writing from someone...

[cestlavielife]

what SEGB and ILT said!

[cestlavielife]

ps as i have a solicitor and a SW (largely for mny ds who is disabled) i have made a point of emailing sol and SW with any and all events of concern. this has provided a comprehensive log of incidents.

in this case, you NEED a solicitor. go see a few til you find one you click with.

[mummyjones1977]

Thank you all for your help. Have now calmed ex down a bit and he is talking to me again, which makes it much easier to resolve this. We have agreed to try and work together again, and he is taking the children on an unsupervised walk before Christmas, and bopwling while I sit in the lounge area, Hope it goes well.

I just feel that I am at the mercy of his demands. He is generally quite placid and has been happy with suggestions I have made about increasing access (and it is always more than 2 hours a week - normally a whole afternoon which I think is more than adequate). It's just that when he isn't happy or feels things aren't progressing fast enough he is allowed to make my life hell with his demands, name calling, threats.

We have agreed on quarterly reviews now, so I hope I have got 3 months of peace ahead of me but I very much doubt it. I just want to get on with living my life, putting the children first. He is part of their life. He sees them once a week which I think is very fair.

I also don't wear the 'he couldn't help it, he was ill' line from itsonlyajob. He couldn't help being ill, but he could have helped himself, followed medical advice, thought about his children in all his actions - eg sitting banging his head on the stairs in front of them. Instead he wanted everyone else to make him better, or his drugs alone to do that.

[cestlavielife]

who allows him to make your life hell?

have you seen a family therapist/counsellor/ anyone about the whole thing?

it might really help - and a good family therapist can give really good strategies on you setting boundaries and NOT allowing him to make your life hell... maybe only one or two sessions with someone would help...

[cestlavielife]

and is there someone else who could supervise contact other than you?

so you can let go a little...