Constructive Dismissal

[Moonlit]

Please help!!

I was forced to resign from my company a month ago. My boss gave me the option to choose my child or my job, when I asked for parental leave. I did not go into work for the one months notice I gave, because I had booked holidays a while ago and because on the advice on my GP.

I have been descriminated against at this company since I was pregnant.

1. I was not promoted
   
2. When I asked them to give me another appraisal they did not promote again
   
3. They did not carry out a health and safety when I was pregnant.
   
4. When I returned to work, I was told I could only have my salary increased 2% because I had been on maternity leave.
   
5. Then when I asked to be transferred to another department, at the internal interview I was asked if I was planning to have another child.
   
   And the list goes on.
   
   I am currently putting together a grievance letter. To I have a case against my company? As I will have to used the modified grievance procedure are there time limits for this?
   
   Any advice on this would me most welcome.

[TheDuchess]

Why did you resign? Too late now but never resign. It is very, very hard to prove constructive dismissal.

Anyhow, did you submit a medical certificate covering the month? How long did you work there? Was the promotion advertised? Was there a selection procedure? What pay rise did others get?

Tell me, why should you have been promoted? Did you ask for a health and safety risk assessment? Did you suffer a detriment?

Sorry questions sound unsympathetic but multi-tasking...

[TheDuchess]

Oh, and did you raise any of these issues before you resigned? Obviously it is very difficult to address an employee grievance if the employee fails to say anything.

Give the grievance a go, acas have a helpline for advice.

[noddy4]

i was working for the private prison services throughout my pregnancy, no health and safety check was done, and when i was 7 months they suspended me on the most ridiculous things like 'i had been arrested with drugs', i'd been visiting someone in prison', the list was endless...they had no evidence obviously...so i told them i had a solicitor and i will be taking them to court. they quickly un suspended me and asked me back to work, i said i was taking materninty leave and then handed my notice in a month before i was due to go back. silly really as i now wish i had taken them to court and screwed the bastards. companies will try anything when pregnancy is involved. threaten them with court,and mean it,and they soon shit themselves....

[Moonlit]

My boss was on holiday, so I emailed my request for paretal leave. When she was back in the office on the first day, I approached her and asked if she had read my email. She said yes and went balistic. I kept very calm because I was shocked to see this side of her. I was told I was irresponsible and had to decide if my job was important to me or not. She then went on to tell me to choose between the two (child or job) She forced me to resign because she harrased me and bullied me until I made a decision. She made going to work unbearable. I was in tears at work. ON this basis I think I have a case for constructive dismissal and sex descrimination.

I worked there three years. Promotion are not advertised, they are goven on yearly appraisals usually. Other people received 4% as had I the previous year.

My company did not have a HR in it's UK's office, all queries had to be emailed to the netherlands. They didn't even have a employee handbook outlining your rights etc.

As HR had not outlined my rights at work when I was pregnant, I did not know at the time they should perform a health and safety at work. I would ask for resources to help lift boxes and I would be told there aren't any. During my pregnancy I had swollen legs and I was exhausted, because I was working long hours. I complaine about this several times, but again they kept on piling the work.

Why did I deserve the promtion, because I damned well deserved it!!!!! :-)

I worked incredibily hard. People who work half as hard as me and who had half the skills I had have all been promoted. People were shocked I was at a junior level, when I was filling the role of much senior role.

Hows that~? Anymore questions :-)

Its good you have asked these questions because it is making me think, what else I should add to my letter.

[TheDuchess]

Weeeeeell, that sounds rather more of a case.

First you need to get hold of the modified procedure. When was the last day of your employment? When were you pregnant? The risk assessment thing may be relevant in terms of context but I suspect you may be out of time for that one in terms of making a claim.

[TheDuchess]

I do have another question.

Did you tell anyone you wee unhappy before you resigned? This is important.

[Moonlit]

I have the modified procedure, but there is no mention of time limits for me to send in the grievance or for them to write back. My last day of employment was the 12th of September 2007. I was pregnant in 2005/2006. I told HR, as it was finally installed in our office about two months ago. I kept on telling my managers that I needed support and help as I was overworked whilst I was pregnant also.

[TheDuchess]

Get the letter in asap outlining your reasons and request a meeting. You have 3 months (I think, you should check) to submit a tribunal claim if you are not satisfied with the outcome from the grievance.

What do you want as an outcome?

As I said earlier, the risk assessment thing will be useful context as evidence of the treatment against you but it it too late for you to make a claim based on that particular part.

You need to build your case around the later treatment that forced you to resign. If you like I'll take a look at the letter. I'm a HR Consultant but have just returned from maternity leave myself and have just a dim memory of the grievance procedures....but could refresh my memory!

[TheDuchess]

Your manager sounds awful by the way.

[Moonlit]

Thank you so much for your advice. You are a star!!!!

I feel so much better. I will definetly email you my grievance letter.

It not just my manager that is awful it's my whole company! BUT I am not going to let them get away with it.

[TheDuchess]

No problem. I hate injustice. You can make a tribunal application online so plenty of time. Give them a reasonable time to deal with your grievance then sling in a tribunal application to show them you are serious.

[flowerybeanbag]

Hi Moonlit
Constructive dismissal is a nightmare and v difficult to prove as Duchess says.
Sex discrimination is much better, however you only have 3 months from the time you say the discrimination happened. If it's dismissal, you have 3 months after employment ended, but they didn't dismiss you.
Have a look at this extremely comprehensive (and readable) guide to sex discrimination claims from the Equal Ops Commission, including how to decide whether to bring a claim, what to expect etc.
Here is the bit on time limits. You do need to bring a grievance first, so the time limit would be extended, but I don't know when this stuff happened and whether you would be in time, it sounds as though you might not be.

If you are not in time, constructive dismissal would be your only bet. It's very very hard to prove and stressful to bring. Basically what has to happen is you have to be at the point, either because they have changed something fundamental about your terms and conditions, or they have made your life so unbearable that your position is untenable and you literally have to walk out. here is a good guide for employees to constructive dismissal.

The fact that you didn't actually serve your notice is good. However you shouldn't resign as Duchess says until you are more or less ready to put in a claim. And unfortunately you didn't bring a grievance about any of this stuff before you left - it would be important that you do this. If you just leave and want to bring a claim for constructive dismissal without having tried to resolve it, you wouldn't be successful, as a tribunal wouldn't think your position had become completely untenable as the employer hadn't had the chance to put things right through the grievance procedure first.

I do think sex discrimination would be your only bet, but as I say, it sounds as though you have missed the time limits I'm afraid.

[Moonlit]

Hi Flowerybeanbag,

I know I have missed the time limits for alot of the things that happened whilst I was pregnant, but I am only inculding that stuff in the grievance letter because I want to show them I have been treated unfairly for a long time by my previous manager.

My case is going to be based on the most recent event, which happened on on the 14th of August 2007, where my manager said 'choose your daughter or your job'. who bullied and harrassed me into resigning the following day. She gave me no choice. Lets say I had resigned, she was going to fire me. And I didn.t want to get fired, as in my industry everyone knows everyone!!!

I spoke to ACAS and equal opportunities they both feel I have a case for sex discrimination and constructive dissmal. But you dont feel I do? I rather someone was honest, because I know I will be the first to submit a grievance letter, as the policy was only put in place three months ago, although the company was established ten years ago!!!

Also, HR sent me a letter at home saying why my request for parental leave was denied, as I was abroad I did not see this until three days before my last day at work. SHe fully supported my manager. She did not even mention what was said to me.

I thought constructiv dismissal is when your employer makes the working environment unbearable. My manager harrased, bullied and caused me stress to point where my GP felt I was unfit to work.

After all this do I really not have a case?

Please be honest. I always like a dose of honesty.

[flowerybeanbag]

Moonlit you do definitely have a case for sex discrimination and with the dates you've given that's obviously fine, so go for it.
The constructive dismissal, with everything that's happened there could well be a case, but as you have resigned without bringing a grievance it could be a bit iffy and if you ask me it's not worth the hassle.

I would stick with the sex discrimination only - you've got plenty there as it is, it's easier to prove (and potentially more lucrative) than constructive dismissal, less subjective, so easier for a potential tribunal to follow and see the argument iyswim.

With the sex discrimination case it's a lot more clear-cut, less of a nightmare to bring as a claim. It's probably not worth complicating it with a constructive dismissal claim. When looking to bring any kind of claim, the more fact-based it is, with clear breaches of the law, the easier for a tribunal to follow and the more chance there is of success. I would only advise bringing a constructive dismissal claim if there isn't another claim you could bring. You do have an excellent case for sex discrimination, so if I were you I'd focus your energies on that one.

hth

[TheDuchess]

I think you also need to look at the purpose of the legislation. clearly there has been an injustice and you have suffered a detriment . even if you don't go as far as the et the process will help you move on.

I think it unlikely you will get anywhere internally, but you did mention that you did eaise it with hr. you must refer to this and argue that hr failed to deal with that as a grievance . you therefore resigned after a greivancw had been raised .

[RibenaBerry]

It is not necessarily a problem for constructive dismissal that the grievance must be raised before resignation, just before the claim is submitted.

It is very rare for me to disagree with flowerbeanbag, but here I think I might. Sex discrimination is a valuable claim and it sounds like you have a strong case (even though you are out of time to bring a stand-alone case of discrimination for the things from 2005/6, if you can say that the issues were part of one continuing act (i.e. related chain of events), you can go back as far as you like). However, I think that your case would need to cover almost all the same ground for discrimination as it would for constructive dismissal, so I don't see that claiming discrimination only saves you too much aggravation.

Goog luck with the grievance.

[flowerybeanbag]

Only other thing I would add Moonlit is that you have a lot of stuff here and I would definitely recommend you get legal advice alongside putting in your grievance.
A solicitor will be able to go through all the details of everything that happened to you, advise about sex discrimination and constructive dismissal, talk about what is involved, chances of success, and how to frame the claim to make it clear and give it the biggest chance of getting you some compensation etc etc
Whether you decide to go just for sex discrimination or for both (and Ribena is right, there will be a lot of crossover), I really would advise doing it with a solicitor, as I say there is a lot of stuff here. The idea of the tribunal system is that it is accessible to everyone and you shouldn't need a solicitor, but I would say you need one with a claim like this.
Do keep us updated won't you?

[RibenaBerry]

I totally agree with flowerybeanbag. If you go for this, use a solicitor. Although it will still be stressful to sue your employer, they take all the hard technical work and they provide someone to carry the stress for you. Having someone soothingly say "this is what I think they will do next" makes the whole process far less frightening.

We are all here to help if you have questions or want more help though.

[Moonlit]

Hi Everyone,

I just wanted to say thank you to all of you for the great advice you have given, it's helped me so much in planning what to do and helping relieve some of the enormous stress i've been under.

One quick question, do I involve the solicitor to help draw up/review my grievance letter, OR once this goes to tribunal? Will one of those "no win,no fee" solicitors be ok?

Does anyone have any good recommendations for a good solicitor?

[RibenaBerry]

Can't recommend anyone I'm afraid, but yes, a no-win no-fee solicitor would be fine. Just make sure that they are genuinely employment law specialists. Ask what percentage of their case law is employment and don't touch it if they say something tiny.

If you can find one in time for your grievance, they can help with phrasing. Otherwise, they can get involved later.

Keep us posted!

[Moonlit]

Hi Ribenaberry,

I have contacted several solicitors, only one has replied. They don't do 'no win no fee' cases. They charge £160 per hour, and they cover a wide range of civil litigation and employment law accounts for approximately 10%.

Is 10% ok? Or is it to low?.

[ellehcim]

Hi I know I'm coming to this late but bear in mind that a "grievance" to satisfy the statutory requirements might already have been lodged if you gave them a resignation letter. This would help your timing issue.
Also do bear in mind that it costs nothing to lodge a claim form with the employment tribunal so you should do this in your situation. Even if you think part of your case is weak you should include it all in my opinion. You should definitly go for sex discrim and constructive dismissal. If nothing else you are increasing your chances of a settlement if you throw it all in there (having said that you do seem to have the basis of a claim anyway).
Do also bear in mind that constructive dismissal (which you can bring if you've been employed for a year) is often only worth bringing if you don't have another job since the compensation depends on actual financial loss i.e. if you get another job straight away and you have the same amount of money coming into the bank then you will not get any compensation apart from what's called the basic award (which depends on age and length of service and doesn't amount to much. Sex discrimination compensation is dependent partly on injury to feelings (for which you are probably looking at lower band e.g up to £5k) but if you can prove the discrimination has lead to you losing your job (or having to leave) then you can also claim for resulting losses.
Be careful of no win no fee solicitors. Where do you live? I might be able to recommend someone.

[gingerone]

Sorry to come onto this so late, but I wanted to add somethings. Poor you firstly, you have definitely been treated differently because you are a woman and that sucks.

Having been through something similar, I wanted to give you a couple of tips:

1. Get EVERYTHING in writing, they will dismiss items if they are not in writing. If you have saved emails or anything like that, all the better.
   
2. Be prepared for a rocky ride. My former employers turned nasty and told a whole bunch of lies about me. I found a thick skin to wear quite quickly.
   
3. When you weren't promoted, do you know how they assessed you? hopefully you do and can prove how fab you were.
   
   Good luck with all fo this, we are all thinking of you

[Moonlit]

Hi Ellehcim,

Thank you for all your fab advice and you most certainly are not late.

I live in south Buckinghamshire.

Hi Gingerone,

I have kept every single email, from when I was pregnant,many from managers telling my manager to promote me. She ignored all these emails. I hope I get somewhere with this. It's so stressful.

[ellehcim]

Don't know that area at all I'm afraid. Expect to be paying between £145 and £225 per hour plus vat and disbursements though depending on level of seniority. You should always have someone reasonably experienced for a discrimination case. You'd be looking at fees of between £5k and £10k to take it all the way (although you don't have to take it all the way). Go for a mid tier firm since the big boys will work largely for employers and will charge too much. The very small ones may well be crap (although that is of course a generalisation) since they might not be specialists.