Gifted Children

[figroll]

I know that many people do not like others to discuss this, but how do you tell if your child is gifted? My dd is 10, born in August and she seems exceptionally clever. She could get 95% in a year 6 maths Sats paper when she was 9.5. She started talking when she was 9 months (and I mean talking). She can read very fluently and will read quite adult books. She reads all the time, everything and anything. She is very curious and interested in everything - she is also very demanding and constantly wants to play games, or read with me or even do maths! She moves constantly too - wriggling, writhing, standing on her head, doing handstands whilst watching tv, etc.

It isn't really a subject that I wanted to bring up at school because people think that it is odd to feel that your child is gifted, they also think you are boasting. Is this odd behaviour or do all children do this? I don't have anyone to compare her to.

[figroll]

Oh and also, she started to play the french horn last year. She is already at grade 4 going on grade 5 and she has only been at it for 12 months. She has great perserverence (sp) and never gives up on things.

[festiveface]

what have they said at school?
I was told at parents evening that my son was classed as gifted and talented.

[clerkKent]

Watch out for attacks from all and sundry!

I am all in favout of a G&T topic, but I wonder why it is important to you to be able to label your child? From what you say, she is gifted. Why not leave it at that? However if you think she needs extra support because she is bored at school, unstretched, disruptive etc, that is a different matter.

I am not sure if there is any value in grading giftedness, but the exceptionally able (not the top 10% but the top 0.1% (say)) tend to ask questions about everything endlessly and have a constant craving for knowledge that quickly outstrips most people. They do better with activities that complement and expand the school curriculum, rather than leaping ahead and doing GCSEs in year 7.

[SueW]

She sounds similar to a girl I know who is a little younger (now Y3). Initially she was acclerated a year but after just one term her mum and dad asked about places elsewhere, at a highly acdemically selective school. As well as working to a high academic standard (I think SATS 4c at 8yo) at She wins drama festivals/competitions and has taken LAMDA exams, plays piano, violin and recorder to exam standard (Grade 1, 3 and 1 respectively I think) plus has taken music theory exams. I think she's not so hot at sport but hey everyone has to have their weak points! :)

She took the exam for the school at a time when pupils are not normally considered and they were delighted to take her in. She is loving every moment and has settled in very quickly.

Your description of your daughter reminds me of her so much because she too has an amazing persistence and determination to succeed.

[Bink]

clerkKent is right, I think - you should decide what you want to do with the information when you have it. If what you want is a community, then you could try NAGC - but the coverage (geographically) is a bit patchy, so it depends where you are - and even then, you might still have to deal with people for whom competition, rather than mutual help, is the name of the game (unfortunately).

Perhaps you should also think of having her formally assessed by an educational psychologist - then at least you will have an answer on where she sits on the formal scale.

[Piffle]

I had the same suspicions about my ds, he was very similar to your dd, did everything early, talking in sentences at under a year and very mathematically advanced, he is 12 now.
We had it confirmed at school really, he was consistently top at everything
The term gifted generally applies academically initially, so what do the school say about your dd?
There is National Academy for Gifted and Talented Youth - your school can recommend children to it. Check to see if they are affiliated. The school mentioned the NAGTY to me I was unaware of it until they brought it up. They might get a little "ooh here is a pushy parent" if you ask them outright.

Some people do get a bit funny about you wanting to label your child, but also it is important to identify children that are capable of more and to make sure their special educational needs are met.
At your dd's age my ds was doing drama, kumon maths, guitar lots of travelling we tried to keep him busy.

[Piffle]

I agree with ClerkKent, the endless questions, the endless activity, the thirst for knowledge
They are lovely but bloody exhausting and pedantic!

[Mimsie]

Agree with Piffle, with DS I always thought he was an inquisitive little soul and he does ask an awful lot of questions that I (even though am quite well educated) have some problems answering (send him to his who has a wider knowledge dad!) and find that it's better to tell him "I'm not sure" than to make a 1/2 attempt at explaining it because if there is inconsistancies he'll catch you up and give you hell!

It's only with the recent problem at school that I went to see the headmaster and was quite surprised that he took it as granted that he was... Have any teachers in the span of time she has been in school pulled you up on parent and teacher evenings? It does depend on the teacher I know some are not all that open to it...

you can also go to : www.nagcbritain.org.uk/cgi-bin/quest.pl

which is a questionaire but it's highly suggestive...

If she is happy I wouldn't bother her with it

[Sparklemagic]

Figroll, she does sound a bright and delightful girl. She has been advanced with many things obviously; have the school never talked to you about gifted and talented for her?

Lots of the behaviour you describe - very active, moving constantly, wanting to do maths with you or play, being interested in everything, reading fluently; to be quite honest this probably describes many, many children who recieve good attention at home and have their questions answered and attended to. It doesn't sound 'advanced' for 10 at all, though the year 6 maths does!

From what you've said and if the school don't approach you about gifted and talented for her then I would relax about her and simply be proud that you have a lively and interesting, normal girl.

Obviously you may want to ask about G & T for her, why not ask and then you know their thoughts on the matter?

[figroll]

Thank you for all the replies. I really am not worrying about labelling her as gifted - I just wondered about her really. The school that she is at never say much about her, just that she is doing ok - but this year, they have said well "of course" she will get level 5a in all subjects and "of course" she has always been top of the class and after getting level 5 over 12 months ago . . . Why didn't they tell me before?

Although I thought she was bright (don't all parents?), I thought other children were the same. The french horn bit got me thinking too because she is very good at it and so quickly.

She has invited onto a Gifted and Talented activity at a local school. I think I was interested because (a) she is my daughter (b) I want to be able to fight her corner if I need to. I don't believe that the primary school she is at has been in the least bit interested in stretching her - everything at school is very very easy. If I know she is "gifted" then I can make sure that she is included in activities where she could otherwise be overlooked.

[figroll]

Piffle - my dd is very active too - she swims, plays french horn, dances, netball.

She recently sat some school tests and she got scholarships which really surprised me and also go me thinking. When she did practice tests she could get 96% on them, but I think I am a bit stupid. I felt that if she could do them then everyone else could too.

I must be in denial about all this.

[Piffle]

In which case Fig you've done great to get her to this level without extra "input" from a school
There is some merit to leaving kids alone through primary school, to be honest - I wasn;t keen on ds being overcooked, although in yr 5 he did start doing extension work and flew through it, which is when I really started to wonder how clever he actually was. Like you I thought tons of kids were with him as the school were exactly like your one!
Then when we moved when ds started yr 6, we saw his school records and he was done as having been on Gifted and Talented since yr 3
Now he in yr & at a boys grammar and now we are seeing him being challenged and doing really well. He got overlooked due to a clerical error for NAGTY in September (he was off with broken arm) but he is being admitted in April
I think it can be quite a good thing at secondary school level.

[figroll]

We are waiting to hear if she has got a place at grammar school - it would be nice if she did, but we thought a back up plan was a good idea (hence she sat 2 independents). I want her to be a normal child and not to think she is Einstein - that isn't healthy. However, I want to be more aware of her abilities too so that I can help her.

Actually, I say I want to help her, but she is much better at maths than I am. My husband is good at maths and he taught her how to simplify equations last year. She picked it up really easily - why don't they do this stuff at school? She is fed up with place value and the grid method! I keep telling her, never mind you will be at secondary school soon. I think it will probably come as a shock because she has been coasting for the past 2 or 3 years.

[Piffle]

TEll me about it, my ds passed my maths level 3 years ago
He has been working gcse maths for 2 years. I think he is going to sit early gcse plus some extra statistic papers?
Maths is where his real real ability lies.
He is aware now of his ability, he has always been mature with high ambitions, which have floored me - like he fancies Oxbridge etc
I have been accused of being a pushy parent, but with me it's totally led by ds.
He is a nice kid and happy and friendly, so I'm confident that he's not getting too above his station.
At grammar scholls you get streaming and a lot of testing, so it does become apparent to all the kid at soem point. IMHO all the kids I know handle it really well.
What part of the country are you in Fig?

[figroll]

We are in the West Midlands. We have grammar schools and some really very good independents which is great. My dd wants to be a surgeon!! I keep telling her to keep her options open!! At 10!! She is quite funny really and can be very grown up and also very very silly sometimes. She wanted to be either a train driver or a surgeon - couldn't make up her mind. However, she is going for surgeon at the moment!!

We will see - at the moment I am just worrying about which school she will be going to. We have some "best in the country" ones and some definitely worst in the country ones too!

Thanks for your support.

[Piffle]

Our grammar in Lincs is also one of the best schools nationally as well, its why we moved her in all truth. Even the high school here is superb too.
DS fancies being Prime Minister but Chancellor first.
He also wanted to be a train driver :)
Time will tell :)

[Filyjonk]

I would say give her time to chill and discover her own interests. Then support her in these interests.

I was labeled gifted at this age , and pushed. I basically dropped out at about 14, left school at 16 with f all qualifications. Yet scored off scale on IQ tests (I think IQ tests are a serious load of irrelevant b*cks btw, but thats another thread)

If she is ahead in some areas, maybe give her a chance to relax, expand her knowlege, whatever.

In my case, I've always done well in exams because I happen to have a near photographic memory for letters and numbers, something valued in schools. But not so much in real life. But until I was at uni I did not enjoy learning-it was then I started learning to really question things, and I think you only start doing that with maturity and chilling time. And that was the approach that got me a first.

Not a criticism at all. I can understand your dilema. Ds is just starting to recognise numbers and letters, and has asked to learn to read-he is 2.5 and I think he could probably learn, but I don't know if I should encourage him. So hope that helps.

(have had no sleep btw so sorry for ramble)

[figroll]

Filyjonk

I agree - I don't want to "push" her - I am just interested because she is my daughter and I love her very much. It is a bit like parents of children who struggle at school. They want to know where they struggle, what they can do to help, etc. I feel the same, it is just that I am beginning to think that my dd is able to do things that others can't.

I will, of course, be guided by her. I have heard about the National Academy for Gifted Children, but I will understand completely if she doesn't want to be part of it - if indeed she is ever offered a place there.

It is curiosity really. We want to know everything about our children because they are very important to us. As for pushing, I wouldn't dream of it - I don't think I could keep it up for one thing! I have always had reservations about grammar school, but my experiences at primary have led me to consider it. I wondered recently if she was bright or if she was gifted. She wasn't speaking French at 2 or anything like that, but she seems able to learn things so quickly - she only needs to be told once and she has got it.

[figroll]

Filyjonk

I agree - I don't want to "push" her - I am just interested because she is my daughter and I love her very much. It is a bit like parents of children who struggle at school. They want to know where they struggle, what they can do to help, etc. I feel the same, it is just that I am beginning to think that my dd is able to do things that others can't.

I will, of course, be guided by her. I have heard about the National Academy for Gifted Children, but I will understand completely if she doesn't want to be part of it - if indeed she is ever offered a place there.

It is curiosity really. We want to know everything about our children because they are very important to us. As for pushing, I wouldn't dream of it - I don't think I could keep it up for one thing! I have always had reservations about grammar school, but my experiences at primary have led me to consider it. I wondered recently if she was bright or if she was gifted. She wasn't speaking French at 2 or anything like that, but she seems able to learn things so quickly - she only needs to be told once and she has got it.

[figroll]

Sorry about the double post! Pressed the button twice I guess!

[Filyjonk]

Oh I know. Its really hard, itsn't it? If only we could see the future! If it was ds then, even knowing what I do, I'd worry that if I didn't push him he'd blame me for not getting him into Oxbridge.

And just to throw a spanner in the works...dh was similar to me, but was pushed, loved being pushed, got into Oxbridge and did a Phd. And wouldn't change any of it.

I think the difference is that no-one really really asked my opinion. I was asked but it was obvious what the answer should, IYKWIM. So long as she is really wanting to do more stuff, ie not just to please you, then this is her choice and I'd try to respect it.

I also think knowing how to learn for yourself is the only real skill kids need, and to keep their enthusiasm for learning is not just valuable but their birthright but thats just my opinion.

[Piffle]

I have hindsight like Filyjnk too
I was pushed and fell away with lower qualifiactaions as my mother chose all ym subjects and I felt powerless
So I failed :) to get back at her.
I got into uni when I was 21, did really well and then my father died. Then I had ds and never went back.
I am retraining again soon.
I will not subject ds to that same pressure, although maybe being a boy he seems to really thrive on competition, very different to how I was.
It does make you think you cannot do right for doing wrong.

[clerkKent]

DS is in yr 7 in a good grammar school with Maths specialism, is top of the class for Maths and other subjects, and complains that Maths is boring as he can do it all. However he is very happy at school and has made lots of new friends this year, so we don't intend to push for anything extra. There is no streaming this year or next; the main question is whether to drop French or German next year.

He was in the G&T group at primary school, but presumably at a highly selective grammar everyone could be categorised as gifted?

[Freckle]

Whereabouts in Kent are you, clerkKent? I assume you are in Kent! And which school does your ds attend?

We just received a letter this morning stating that the school is nominating DS1 for NAGTY and asking us to support their nomination. I did wonder whether all children at grammar would get such a letter, but the leaflet which accompanied the letter indicated that you only get nominated for NAGTY if you are performing or have the potential to perform in the top 5% of the national ability range. As grammars take the top 25%, obviously not all will be nominated.

[clerkKent]

freckle, it is not Kent. (Clark Kent is Superman -clerkKent is something more humble).I think it may be more selective than the top 25%, as only 1 in 10 applicants get in to the grammar schools around here.

DW is going to a talk about NAGTY at the weekend (moving up from NAGC Explorers), but that is not through the school.