Isle I am so very very sorry. Life can be so unbelievably shit. My thoughts are with you - it's very very tough.

LondonLottie this has to be the most dramatic pregnancy ever! you're making the best of a really scary and stressful situation and I do admire you. It sounds like you're doing a fantastic job at giving those little girls the best possible start. And you can write a novel about it afterwards!

Bluebell that's amazing! Lucky lucky you. Congratulations and tons of sticky dust!

Gingerwine I wish there was something I could say that would make you feel better. I know how tough it is and how long it takes.

oh Isle I'm so so sorry. My heart goes out to you. After all you've been through, it's so unfair. You've been so brave throughout, and were so positive during this painful 2WW. I can't believe it. I really thought this was your time :-( Please keep talking to us and use us as a support - you've always been there for all of us! Take care xxxxxxxxx

Bucky don't worry at all about the grading - I'm not sure it's hugely important. My sister (a medic) likened it to looking at runners in an 100 lap race after the first lap - you can't really tell who's the strongest. By chance we had exactly the same outcome as you (one good with only 2 cells, and one average - and none good enough to freeze). But it worked (so far) - and I'll never know whether it was the "good" or "average" that got this far, but I just wanted you to know so you don't have ANY negative thoughts. Being positive and calm is so important right now. Good luck - and enjoy being a pizza-face, it might just be for a good thing!!

Bucky Just a quick post to say I'm sorry it was so uncomfortable at ET. Wanting to pee when you can't is agony and I had to go and relieve myself of small amounts three times before I had ET.

The embryo quality thing is hard because no one really knows for sure how much the visual appearance of embryos equates to their stickability. Embryologists are very fussy about the quality of embryos for freezing and that's because the freezing/thawing process is stressful for embryos and therefore it doesn't make sense to freeze embryos that don't appear strong enough. Having said that 'average' is not bad, it is fine and there is certainly a chance that they will make it. All you need to do for now is relax, look after yourself and send some positive vibes to your embies. For now you are 'pregnant until proved otherwise'. You and your DH have created something and even if things don't progress you have acheived something which is a good step.Drs, embryologists and nurses have to be reasonably realistic with us and not get our hopes raised too high. It must be a hard balance to get right but they are just trying to keep our feet on the ground. For now please just focus on your embies and the 2 WW. It is not an easy time so talk to us lot as much as you want. Take care. GW

Thanks LL. I did think you were in the UK when last we 'talked' hence why I was confused . Thanks again for calming me down. I had a bit of an outburst . Guess it all just got to me today...some people just get to shag and have a baby , how novel that would be . Your story sounds amazing though and your DH sounds lovely.

PS: Bucks - we moved to Switzerland because DH lost his job in Feb; found another one in Zurich in March and started in April. I moved out here at the end of August and it's been a big adventure so far (that's the positive spin anyhow) - enjoying it overall although not sure I'd recommend such a life upheaval during pregnancy. Or perhaps I'm a big wuss because it's all been a bit much for me at times.

Couldn't resist typing a response.

Bucky - so sorry to hear about your day at transfer. Going to give you the same pep talk re. the embryo quality/etc that my husband gave me... it sounds as though your DP is thinking along similar lines. At transfer we had two embryos left, both of them were grade 2 out of 4 (with 4 being the best; ie. they were not great!). I was hysterical and had practically written the cycle off - which is sounds as though you are starting to do. My husband, in the nicest possible way, told me off for doing so and told me that we HAD to root for our little fellas as they were doing their best for us, trying their hardest and we HAD to believe in them and not dismiss them for being less than perfect. Being the Googleloon that I am, I had to go and do my own research and actually there's not that much evidence that this embryo grading has much impact on results. Both ours stuck around, the same can happen to you. I'm not saying it will, but it IS possible. We had never achieved pg together beforehand so I had concerns that we just weren't that capable of producing good enough embryos. In both our cycles we didn't have any good enough to freeze; don't worry about that - both my consultant in Norway and here said that too much emphasis is put on having some left over whereas what you want are two that are good enough to put back in and that's that. Just because they weren't good enough to freeze doesn't mean they're not good enough to become implanted embryos - it is only because the freezing/defrosting process is harsh and not many embryos are capable of surviving it. The Norway guy told me that he refused to freeze our left over blastocyst (they let our leftover Day 3 embies continue to see if they'd get to blastocyst) because he in all honesty didn't think it was fair or appropriate to put me through a cycle with something that would have such a small chance of even making it through the defrost, let alone transfer and implantation.

Cerubina - not sure if you knew but our last cycle was at Guy's. I think very highly of them overall. Not sure if it varies PCT by PCT but we had NO WAIT at all at the start of the year; couldn't believe it. If the wait is now a year long I would be very tempted to self-fund if you can afford it - even if you squeeze one cycle in before you get to them (and assuming it takes you more than one go which it might not!) it means your NHS turn will be more tailored to your specific response. We self-funded for our first cycle and I have no regrets at all about doing that. I hear in Southwark now you can have 3 IVF cycles on the NHS which is fab; at the time we had ours it was just one.

Cross post with you there Bucky. That sounds like a pretty horrible experience, not exactly a smooth start with panicking over your bladder and then how much fun is it ever to have a horde of people looking up your foo foo? Especially in such an emotional and high stakes game as this one.

I am clueless over the "quality of embryos" diagnosis, not having been through it yet, but I understand that it's very common for them not to be good enough for freezing, and I wouldn't be surprised if the medics feel it best to downplay the adjectives to avoid planting huge optimism in patients. It is understandable for you to want to be told they are excellent quality, but average at least means as good as anyone else would get, and a 'poor' rating would be more worrying.

Your OH sounds lovely, and if you both direct lots of calm, loving thoughts at the embies hopefully you will do something to give them the very best chance. Fingers crossed for you.

Hope you're feeling better (esp your back) and can do something nice for the rest of the weekend to distract and pamper yourself. Take it easy.

LL in answer to your question, yes at the moment we are on the NHS referral list (at Guy's) but once we find out how the land lies we will make a decision about whether to self-fund or not. I think the NHS waiting list is at least 12 months there, according to their website, so I reckon we will end up paying. For now having the appointment seems to be helping me to chill out and I'm sure the 6 weeks til New Year will FLY by so I feel quite content really.

Oh isle, you poor poor girl. So very sorry to hear it. I think we were all rooting for you and hoping your luck would take a turn for the best. You and your OH must be so sad. I feel useless to say anything helpful but I'm thinking of you, I think we all will be. Here for you whenever you want to come back on and vent, rage, cry, whatever you need to do. Take the best care of yourself.

Isle I'm so sorry..... I'm really not looking forward to D-Day myself already so I can only begin to wonder what you must feel like. [hugs]

LL OMG!! How cool that you got to go in the Grey's Anatomy Helicopter though.... I am so glad things calmed down. Still a bit stumped as to why you are in Switzerland though, can somebody put me out of my misery please?

Big wave and hello to everyone else. Hope nobody is in Cumbria.

Well, I wish I could come with great happy tidings to cheer everyone up but to say I am traumatised would be an understatement. Of the 9 fertilised embryos 8 were 'average' and 1 was 'good'. I know nothing about this part, but they chose 2, the 'good' one had only two cells which sounds a bit pants to me, but hey ho. The average one had 5 cells. Anyway, they told me to drink loads and loads on my way there which i dutifully followed, and then I was waiting an hour when I got there until eventually, I had to pee (TMI sorry ). I was going to wet myself. Tried to half pee for the first time in life ever, but was obviously unsuccessful as when i eventually got called up my bladder was not full enough so I got sent back out to drink again...Cue 45 mins later....I am in agony. Feel like I am a kid on a car ride with my parents and they will not pull off the motorway to let me pee, times 20. Eventually they call me, I had tears streaming down my face it hurt so much (pathetic I know) and then they put the speculum in pushed around a bit and I got a shooting pain down my back and my whole back went into spasm . I turned white as a sheet, thought I was going to pass out and started sweating like a horse, so DP tells me (V.attractive NOT). DP got scared as did the doctor/nurse/embryologist whatever they were and everyone started pulling off my hairnet thing and wiping my brow...Anyway, they got them in, 1 good and one average. So we'll see. 'average' really does NOT sound great . They were so 'average' we were advised they were too rubbish to freeze!

I know what will be will be, but I am not overly optimistic. DP keeps talking to the 'embryos' and asking if 'they can feel his love' if he puts his hand on me.... I'm worried he is going to be very disappointed...

Anyway, sorry for the big monologue. Everyone else seems to be a brave IVF soldier whilst I have found the whole process to be, well, quite horrid really. Now I just have the progesterone pizza face to look forward to in time for my Xmas party . I'm fine really, just having a rant. I'm just a moaner, ask Caitni .

Oh Isle I am just so sorry. I know there is little I can say but am thinking of you. I hope your DH and you are having plenty of hugs and of course you must have lots of cuddles with your lovely puppy.

Lottie I can't believe what you are going through. Those (not so) little girls are really keen to come out. 5 lbs is a great weight for 32 week twins. You should feel very proud of yourself for incubating them so nicely. It does sound like you are getting fantastic care and when they do arrive I'm sure they will be in the best possible place. Your poor DH having to do all that travelling. Is your mum still out there to help?

mamachris Lovely to hear from you again. Hope you are ok.

One week after our BFN and things are kind of ok. I am starting my new job on Monday so plenty to distract me. I am kind of getting on with stuff but there's just a sadness that appears from time to time. Time helps I suppose but it's not easy is it?

Hi to nanoo, bluebell, cerubina, mummycat, bucky and caitni and anyone else.