Oh God, he's not gained AGAIN. <<tears hair out>>

[suwoo]

DS2 is 6 weeks tomorrow. Lost 20 oz at birth. He is now 10 oz less than his birth weight. Last week he put 50g on and I was giving him the odd top up (was supposed to be doing 3 a day, but wasn't )

Today he has gained 2g with no top ups. I'm going to have to top him up again aren't I? I so don't want to, I really really just want to bf him. I can't pump as I just can't fit it in with the other two kids, so it will have to be formula . I am feeding him 2 hourly and he is really alert, lots of wees and poos etc.

[fruitshootsandheaves]

Don't top him up if you don't want to. If he is healthy and alert then who is to say what exact weight he should be?

My DC's were always too small, not heavy enough, too thin.
Eventually I just stopped going to clinics for weighing etc. as it just made me worry too much and unnecessarily.

[MamaG]

suwoo have you spken to a BF counsellor about his weight gain (or lack of?)

I was pressured into giving top ups so much with my DS1 that he ended up being on prem baby milk and NO breastmilk! He still didn't gain weight at a rate of knots and I ended up being told "oh he's just thin, naturally"

You could try ringing the helpines (LLL, NCT etc) or finding a local BF support group?

Poor you, its desperately worrying, I remember it well (and its 5 years ago now!)

[Reallytired]

Have you tried frenqueek? Its a herb that increases milk supply.

" I am feeding him 2 hourly and he is really alert, lots of wees and poos etc. "

That sounds great.

Percentile charts are really misleading. A child does not necessarily stay on the same percentile line. Many health visitors do not understand percentile charts and tell mothers to top up unnecessarily. For example a healthy baby might drop from the 98th percentile to the 75 percentile. It is possible for a newborn baby on the 98th percentile to be healthy, but there are no adults on the 98th percentile who aren't over weight. It is not unusual for babies to change percentile lines.

Was your baby big at birth? Also formula fed babies have a different growth pattern to breastfed babies.

Is there a nhs breastfeeding support group near you where you could get a second opinon before you give up breastfeeding?

Anyway congratulations on the birth of your baby and congratualtions for feeding so long.

[suwoo]

Done all that RT. On fenugreek. Can't get hold of lactation consultant.

Was 8.9 born, dropped to 7.4. Now 7.15.

[CarGirl]

Is it possible that he is just catching down?

My 3 younger children were all very very heavy similar weights at birth but they ended up following completely different curves once the'd dropped down. 98th, 90th and 50th.

They were also all tall so once was very very skinny I just never got her weighed!

Actually if he is bright, alert & happy then stop getting him weighed?

[suwoo]

I aint giving up!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[suwoo]

My other two are skinny. He is on 2nd centile now.

[Reallytired]

suwoo, where are you in the UK? (Ie. which is your nearest major town?)

[suwoo]

Manchester

[claricebeansmum]

DD was born on 50th percentile and then steadily dropped to 2nd where she remained for years for weight and height. And at 11 yo still is. She's petite and stick thin although you wouldn't understand how watching her eat 5 roast pots on Sunday with her lunch.

If your DS is thriving, developing normally and everything else is OK then don't be forced into doing anything else.

I agree with Reallytired that the percentile charts are often misread and misinterpreted. We are not the same size and weight - there is a distribution and some of us have to be not on the 50th line!

[suwoo]

he is on 2nd centile of new chart.

[Reallytired]

Oh I just seen from your profile that you live in manchester.

Here is some links for north west england.

www.breastfeedingcommunity.co.uk/interactivemap/north_west.htm

I went to a LLL meeting this morning and I met a lady who was using a nursing supplementer so that she could give top ups without giving up breastfeeding. She had a strange hormonal condition that affected her abilty to breastfeed.

Although I have never read it, this book is supposed to be good.

www.amazon.co.uk/Breastfeeding-Mothers-Guide-Making-More/dp/007159857X/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&s=books&tag=mumsnet&ascsubtag=mnforum-21 d=1252502301&sr=8-2

[suwoo]

I'm not really arsed about the chart, just that he is so skinny now and is 10 oz below birth weight.

[suwoo]

Thanks RT. I have a supplemtal nursing system.

[suwoo]

Thanks for link, I already go to the baby bistro and have my name down for the peer support training.

So tempted to lie to DH

[LuluMaman]

was his birth weight definitely accurate?

could be catching down as cargilr says, and if your other two are wee skinny things, then surely the fact DS2 is aswell, is not as much of an issue

if he was failing to thrive, sruerly he would not be happy, alert etc?

[tiktok]

suwoo -

It does matter he is not gaining...but at least he is not losing. I am pretty sure, on those figures, that 'catching down' is not what's happening.

I think it is reasonable to take this seriously and for the HCPs to keep an eye on him to make sure he remains healthy and thriving....he is not in urgent need of formula, from what you say, but he could certainly do with as much breastmilk as you can get inside him.

Do you have a trusted friend who would donate expressed breastmilk?

[tiktok]

suwoo - just my opinion, but if you lie to dh and he doesn't believe you, or challenges you, or finds out otherwise, might he think you are obsessed and taking things too far?

[suwoo]

We think his birth weight was accurate, he looked chubby in the photos- he now looks like a skinned rabbit!

DD is on 9th centile, DS has picked up to the 25th. DH will make me top up. Because I've had a breast reduction, the quality/quantity of my milk is forefront in peoples minds.

I personally don't think he is failing to thrive.

All DH's side of the family are tiny and I wasn't exactly a huge child either.

I'm just gutted.

[suwoo]

Glad you are here Tiktok. I won't lie to DH really. I feel deep down that I need to give him formula this week. I can use my SNS instead of bottles.

Tiktok at 6 weeks, he is alert and is sleeping well through the night, 4-5 hour streches. Should I wake him? How much formula should I top him up by? 2oz 3 times a day?

[hobbgoblin]

suwoo i have my experience to share with you but its impossible for this not to sound smug so i apologise for that in advance.

i have 4dc all breastfed and my eldest was a FAT baby. Really fat. She had colic and so sucked a lot for comfort so she got a lot of milk at the same time. The middle boys were uneventful feeders. They gained fairly averagely, I fed on demand but was more 'routine' with DS2 as I went back to work and popped home to feed him during my breaks (was local school). Bf lasted less with him as opposed to the 12 mnths I did with the other two.

I'm now feeding DD2 who is 7 weeks on Thursday. Again, on demand. It feels like the first time again as my last baby before her is now about to turn 6 so it's been a while!

Anyway, she too is gaining extremely well and I'm not doing anything intentionally so thought maybe I could share how it is with us. I have been at times surprised by the feeding pattern especially as DP keeps questioning it as his older DC from 1st marriage were not breastfed so he is a bit intrigued and annoying interested in it all.

So she feeds at least 3 hourly I guess but if I am out and about she could go 4,5 or even 6 hours without feeding. She goes a minimum of 10 hours each night. The reason, I think, we are able to do this without seeing weight loss is because we have occasions where she will bob on and off all evening - say from 9pm when DC are all asleep until midnight when I put her down asleep. Likewise we could spend a good few hours permanently attached on a weekend during the day when DC are otherwise entertained. Could you do this instead of thinking in 2hourly terms? I believe for me it really helps. DD one did it because of colic, dd2 does it because i am relaxed about feeding her literally whenever she wants and both babies v. successful in gaining weight steadily. hth

[suwoo]

I am kind of doing that hobgoblin, and thanks for sharing with me. I don't go any longer than 2 hrs in the day and he does cluster feed in the evening. I feed him roughly 12-16 times a day. How can he not gain though? Where is the milk going?

[tiktok]

suwoo - can't suggest formula amounts, sorry. YOu need to talk about that with the HCPs.

This is a long time for a v. slow gaining baby to sleep at night age only 6 wks - if you woke him you would almost certainly get more milk into him.

[tiktok]

I think it is likely the reduction is having an impact on your supply, suwoo - cant remember if you described the op and how confident the surgeon was about what was done, but it can happen that there is an effect because the ducts are severed. OTOH, many mothers have no probs at all...