BF ramble. Struggling.

[Martha200]

My younger son is 11 days old and omg am really struggling at night now with feeds

Last night after sitting there for a good couple of hours and feeling he fed and winded well in that time he still screamed the place down (as often he does at night) and DH took to moving the moses basket into the Nursery, the idea being to help me sleep (I am so tired recently, that I dare not co sleep, though the other night did my neck in a bit having fallen alseep sitting up and bf in bed.)Felt really bad about dh moving him into another room but I have had a headache for nearly 24hrs and guess he was trying to make sure I got some rest.

My nipples go through sore stages (which probably is my fault with positioning, but my right one really is in a state and wondered about whether using a nipple shield might help.. though am cautious about this as it was the shield and jaundice that really put an end to my bf attempts with ds1.

Then I think about other options, is it my fault he is not content after more than an hours feed at night? Should I consider a dummy as he then cries when put down after a feed most of the time at night. I guess formula is not the way to go?

I am expressing one bottle a day. I tried giving the bottle at night time but he was hungry an hour later (unlike the day time where he is settled into a 3/4 hr pattern.)

I don't know how long I can last for, though not giving up yet, but a friend came over recently and said she couldn't understand how people found bf hard as she had had no problems when she had bf some years ago.. made me feel even worse

Am looking fwd to going to a bf support group but can't do tomorrow as got MW and HV visiting during the day!

[beautifuldays]

11-12 weeks is a typical growth spurt time, so he may be feeding more frequently to up your supply a bit. the hormones that are responsible for milk production are highest at night, so that is why they feed more at night than during the day.

bloody hard tho i know
do try and get along to the breastfeeding group, tho they will prob have lots of experince and advice on this, and maybe check on your positioning.

and well done for keeping going for 11 weeks, sound like you are doing a bloody good job

[NorthernLurker]

Hi Martha - sorry to hear you're having such a hard time. I'm sure some breastfeeding gurus will be along shortly but thought I would post a bit for you as well.
Firstly - I'm sure you're not doing anything 'wrong' and it most certainly is NOT your fault. Your son is very small and I wonder if he is feeding so frantically at night as a way to stimulate your supply and get the good stuff that night feeds provide. No idea what it's called but it's supposed to be good stuff So I think the pattern you are describing may be fairly normal for a baby of that age - but it's still bloody hard work.
So - is there someone who take your dc's out for a walk this afternoon so you and dh can nap? Your rather smug bfeeding friend sounds like a good candidate
Do you use a pillow for support when feeding? I think this is no longer recommended - but it was the way I was shown to b/feed nearly ten years ago and I have always found it the easiest way - very handy to have some extra support when your knackered at night.
This next thing isn't going to do your teeth any good but - I found night feeds much easier to take if I had some Dairy Milk to nibble on
I definately wouldn't introduce formula - your milk is best for baby and you really are doing well - I'm sure things will settle soon. B/feeding group sounds like an excellent idea.
Good Luck!

[Martha200]

So nice to see some responses before I jump back into bed

btw beautiful days, do hope I make it to 11 weeks, am at 11 days though {wink]

[StrangeTown]

Martha - first 2 weeks feeding DS were really hard - especially at night, I sympathise. Just wanted to say that about 2 weeks we seemed to get things sorted. DS and I both got better at feeding, I was more confident that I could BF and it was going to work. As soon as I got to this point mentally, DS started sleeping through the night - 12-8.
It sounds as if you are feeding really well during the day so far, for the sore nipples, I used Lanisoh, saw a big improvement within 1 day, it is not cheap, but midwife may have samples.

I'm really glad I persevered through those first 2 weeks, BF now is so much easier. I would also recommend calling the BF Network helpline, they recently talked me through ym latch as DS kept fussing and headbutting and they have sorted it!

Good Luck!

[lilyloo]

Hi Martha
sorry things aren't going too great.
But you aren't alone dd is 9 days today and we are in the same boat.She is going 3-4 hours in day and settling in moses basket in day but different story at night. We are only going 2 hours but we are co sleeping. I am not sure how you feel about this and lot's of conflicting advice but i found it helps you through these first weeks and i did it with other 2 also. I feel that if you get sleep you feel more able to cope generally. I just lie down in bed and face lo to me and she feeds really well , i often fall asleep doing this.
Have you tried rubbing breast milk on your nipples ?
Also ask mw / hv tom to check your latch but i bfed my other 2 and have still had sore nipples.
Good luck and keep going it isn't your fault at all you will get there

[determination]

Martha it is really really difficult at night - i found with my 2 dd's the easiest way to deal with it is to master feeding whilst lying down - this way you will be able to doze off and rest whilst feeding.

[http://www.kellymom.com/babyconcerns/fussy-evening.html Cluster feeding and fussy evenings]]

co sleeping safely

Slings/Baby carriers

[determination]

Cluster feeding and fussy evenings

[SkittlesAreFruitGroup]

Just wanted to add my support - you are doing so well!!!
Although you may not want to read this next bit... it took me and DS six weeks to really sort out the feeding, and he used to feed for an hour or more, every 3 or so hours, and screamed all night. However, I was sooooo keen to persevere, and the old right nipple (which threated to fall off for the first three weeks,as I had no one who bothered to mention that DS's latch was a bit dodgy)survived intact, and we bf until 12 mths.

As long as it won't get me flamed, why are you expressing for a bottle? I just didn't have the energy or find time to make a whole 'nother feed for an already sucky busy feeder. So if it's not going well with the bottle business, don't let this stress you out - flag it and just use the magic booby bottle Also, he'll only have to worry about learning how to work boobies, not boobies and a bottle!

Keep smiling!!

[determination]

Oh sorry, i should have mentioned that i used Silverette to heal my cracked nipples and also to prevent them getting sore again. I was completely healed and pain free within 2 days. These little silver gadgets are definately a must have for bfing . I used mine again just last week when dd2 had a good bite at my nipple and broke the skin.

[beautifuldays]

doh!

if he is only 11 days you are doing brilliant and frequent night feeding is very common and completely normal. do get someone to check your positioning if you are sore tho.
little babies feed a lot! just remember it won't last forever

[andiemustlosehalfastonemore]

I can only echo what everyone else says feeding lying down was a lifesaver for me in the early weeks with both of mine

I agree with skittles and would stop expressing your supply and demand aren't really sorted yet so it would be better to wait until about 6 weeks before doing this

also lansinoh was a lifesaver worth every penny try to keep your nipples moist and don't let them dry out by making sure you put loads on
keep going you are doing really well it is tough I had loads of probs with both of mine it is easier for some than others but I fed ds1 for a year and am still feeding ds2 who is 7 months now
you are doing fab job
also cake helps

[NorthernLurker]

how was last night Martha?

[IAteRosemaryConleyForBreakfast]

Oh Martha, just wanted to say well done for sticking at it and I swear it will get better for you!

Can you hang on until 14 days? It seems to be a turning point for many people. Stick at it, it will get better!

[pamelat]

I am SO glad that I have come across this website (just joined) and found this thread.

Our little girl is 11 days old today, and with the exception of 1 "emergency" formula bottle last night has been breast fed.

She had been going 2 hours between feeds at night and 3 hours ish in the day. This may not sound too bad but she is feeding for at least an hour at a time, so at night I am only ever having an hour "off". I think its very unfair that feeds are timed from the start to the start .. !

In the past 24 hours things have got a lot worse, last night she fed for 3.5 hours before falling to sleep. Having spoken to the midwife she said to just go with this and feed on demand, its not easy at 2am having been up all night. She did eventually sleep for 2 hours after this mammoth feed but I have been left feeling upset, frustrated and useless. She has carried on being fretful today, I dont think that she is even really hungry, just seeking comfort ... ? She fed an hour ago but is already crying, is it really only ever for food or should I try a dummy? I didnt want to have to resort to a dummy but we desperately need some sleep - my husband starts back at work tomorrow.

[Sushipaws]

Hello,

You are doing so well, the first few weeks are incredibly hard but it'll all be worth it in the end.

I agree with the above comments, do you need to express, sucking from a bottle may confuse baby and make bf harder.

Can you sleep during the day in the 3 hour gaps? Can your dh or another relative watch DS so you can get a few hours undisturbed.

I loved feeding lying down, it meant me and dd could nap together. And as a parent of a non-sleeping, comfort sucking, nightime squeaking baby, I can highly recommend going for an hour in a floatation tank every couple of weeks. It's meant to be the equivelent of 8 hours sleep. Hopefully it won't come to that with you, but it's always an option.

Good Luck

[SkittlesAreFruitGroup]

Hi pamelat - i totally empathise with you - was there with first baby, DS (now 3.4). I thought I was going to go potty with sleep deprivation, everyone said 'sleep when the baby sleeps', but I was so over tired, and he just never seemed to sleep that I thought i would go mad! But really, how I wished I had just slept in every moment I could, or even just sat down and started at the wall when baby was dozing or quiet.

However I had absolutely no intention of bottle feeding, so I just toughed it out - and it was HARD!! I can only add my love and support, you will do it, just make sure you surround yourself with supportive information and supportive people - I found that even one voice that whispered (wouldn't it just be easier to ff?) made my sleep deprived brain waver.

You will get there, and the first month or so with a sucky baby is just hard. It just is, but you can and will do it. Keep smiling!!!

[SkittlesAreFruitGroup]

or even stared at the wall !

[aurorec]

I'm sure you'll get through this... It's hard work, and even worse when you don't get any sleep, but it does get better.
Not your fault AT ALL, my little one and I spent the first month in tears after each feed, I had a fast let-down which she found hard to handle, she had bad latch and gave me cracked and sore nipples.

As long as your son has wet nappies and is putting on weight, you're doing great, and soon I'll get easier and easier.... It might take a while (3 months in my case) but it DOES get better.

Good luck!

[Lucky13]

Hi, i hope you're still coping. I just wanted to say that i thought that the first two weeks were living hell and i thought it would never end, but please believe me when i say that it will get better.

Please keep persevering with the latch. For weeks I had nipples that were so sore that my DD was only getting blood and no milk. I ended up having to use nipple shields and whilst not ideal it kept us going. It took a long time after they healed for her to stop using them but managed to wean off the shields ok.

We also used a dummy from 3 weeks - again not ideal but she seems not to be confused by it. We only use it after she has been fed and winded (and fed again if necessary), if she has tummy pain. It seems to help soothe her.

I spent so many nights in tears thinking it was all going wrong and it was my fault. I think the thing is to get through it the best way you can. Take it one week or even a day at a time and eventually you'll be amazed how time will fly. My DD is 10 weeks old now and i'm still BF even though at 2 weeks i thought i'd give up. I even believe i'll make it to 6 months now, it really is so easy once it all clicks.

Do keep going if you can, it really is worth it.

[honey2theb]

No advice really, but just wanted to say ive got a practically new tube of lansinoh here if you want it? its supposed to be good, but ive never needed it? let me know if you want it!

And hugs xxxx

[Balthamos]

Hey just wanted to say, it is really hard BFing at first , but it is so worth it. I have huge sympathy for you 'cos i know how hard it is. BUT (and it is a big but..) once it clicks it is the best thing . i have just passed the 6 month mark and don't know when i'll stop BFing my DD because i enjoy it so much.

Why? So many reasons... A few being - the closeness with you LO - when they look up at you as they are feeding it is bliss... Also, it is SO easy, you'll find it really easy to comfort your baby and get your baby to sleep. And you'll lose weight effortlessly (i have lost half a stone in the last 3 weeks and have been eating crisps and chocolate everyday! not that i am of course recommending an unhealthy diet! you should eat lots of fruit and veg too ).

Read all the positive threads in here about BF. Most people in these positive threads i'm sure found it hard at the start for various reasons but lots of people love it by the end.

It is hard because it hurts (sometimes and for some people). It is also hard because you are just so tired and the baby seems to want to feed all the time. However, it helped me to think that the baby wanting to feed all the time was time for ME to rest and recover. It is almost like natures way of making you sit down to recover from pregnancy and birth!

If you decide that you want to continue BF (and it is not for everyone) then keep an eye on your latch, put breast milk on your nipples and let them get air to help them heal. Also, get lots of good book/magazines/tv remote etc to keep you occupied while feeding! It alsohelped me to accept that this was just a few week out of my life.Once the first few weeks are over, it does get better! It also helped me to focus on how proud i would feel when i had my DD weighed. And i did!

Whatever you do, good luck and congratulations on the birth of your DS!

[Balthamos]

One more thing, congrats on even trying when you have more than one LO. It must be even harder and you must be even tireder.

[pamelat]

Hi everyone, had a better night. Was up at 12, 2, 4 and 6 - all do-able , just wish that the feeding was for a shorter duration as it soon becomes only an hour or less gap

Was feeling positive and then she fed from 130pm until 5pm today! She only stopped as I called my dad to come and take responsibility for half an hour (lucky to have that I know), as soon as she was passed to someone else (who doesnt smell of milk) she fell to sleep .. ! Typical.

Just 2 quick questions please, with such a long feed would you still count the start time (130pm) as the time between feeds? For example, if she was to feed again at 7, it would seem odd to say that she has gone 5.5 hours between feeds? And 5.5 hours would be longer than I should let her go for .. ?

Also, does the excessive feeding this afternoon mean I am in for a good night .. ?!

All I can say is that the hand over to my dad worked wonders, I wonder whether she simply associates me with feeding, rather than actually needs to feed?

Really helps to know its not just me.

x

[chiefcookandbottlewasher]

hi martha and pamelat, i posted here a few days ago, despairing at the same thing. my worst night featured a feed that lasted four hours!! would highly reccomend kellymom ref cluster feeding, makes a lot of sense and helps you realise you're not alone. Come and join us to compare notes if you like?

[Martha200]

Ooo.. thanks for all the replies. Update:
Just got a chance to quickly pop on and post!

Skittles - the reason I got into expressing a bottle in the first place was because my son showed extreme breast preference (I thought that was something for 40 yr olds not babies In the really early days getting him to latch on the left side was almost impossible a real battle and a visit from the MW confirmed (a) he was somewhat lazy in feeding and (b) the preference thing.
My left side felt like it was going to explode with the milk, so she told me to express and I said that would be a waste because I refused to get my baby into any confusion over teat/nipple.

She then told me that recent research shows that this confusion is actually a lot of bollocks and that actually most babes do not have a prob.. so I gave it a go to relieve my left side and it wasn't a problem, infact it was nice for DH to give him the 2oz and then 24hrs later LO had improved with latching on the left side.

I have continued to express one bottle each or every other day because it really helps me just before I go to bed (yes emotionally I will admit! [blush}

A friend gave me a few samples of the lansinoh, wow it really helps! so I may need to get some quick before I run out!

Other thing I did last two nights (baby 2 weeks tomorrow) was have baby in bed for the middle feed during a night. He fed superbly and I got some kip. My HV told me off, but after having fallen asleep sitting up in bed and giving myself a terrible neck ache I felt it was safer (following the recommendations) and my MW agreed, she told me the number of babies who fall on the floor in hospitals when mums feed sitting up at night is not uncommon, so that is helping.

Still feel like it's progress some days and then maybe a step back at others.. but I am still hanging in on there and I notice when I am out he is feeds in a much shorter time (though am I the only mum who didn't buy nursing tops, and have button tops, couldn't find any decent nursing tops, so if anyone knows?

Thanks all for taking the time to reply.
I am over the moon I have had the opportunity to BF this LO because I was so screwed from the start with my first.. feel that 13 days is such a major achievement for us (though don't think it would go down well on a CV