Really struggling to transition from FF to BF

[Bigoldsupermoon]

Apologies if this is a topic that's been done to death, but I'm in need of some serious support - I'm completely swamped in baby blues and really struggling with feeding after a traumatic c-section birth.

My milk didn't come in at all for the first three days, so baby was put on formula. Now, I'm still not engorged but there is milk there - problem is, baby has damaged my nipples and refuses to latch on and stay on. I'm willing to put up with pain - she can latch, I think she's just lazy/confused.

Sometimes, although not that often, she'll have a lovely long feed but she's still hungry (to the point of hysteria) after both breasts. Most often, she'll latch on for a minute or so, suck, swallow, then drop off and thrash her head about. She fed for almost two hours earlier, but still wanted a bottle after.

I'm spending most of the time in floods of tears - I'm traumatised by the birth (the spinal didn't work properly, which meant I felt everything and got through it on IV pain relief/gas and air ), so baby's upset is reducing me to an absolute sobbing wreck, which I suspect isn't helping my supply, or my relationship with her.

Whenever I really can't get her on, I am pumping, and I'm trying to use the stimulation setting on the pump in between feeds to get things going a bit better, but I just don't think I have enough milk. I don't feel engorged, there's no 'let down' sensation and I'm not leaking milk at all.

Any help or advice would be so appreciated - I'd also be interested to know if anyone knows of organisations that send visitors out. I'd be happy to pay a private breastfeeding support person if necessary - I just really, really want to get this sorted.

Thanks for reading x

[Stealthpolarbear]

Congratulations on your baby :)
I'd suggest contacting the not or la leche league. How old is your baby? Are you having support from your midwife?

[Bigoldsupermoon]

Thank you, Stealth - she's gorgeous, and I'm so glad she's here safe. She's 10 days old, and the midwives are being really good but their time is limited.

I've had the most success with a friend who came round and actively helped me get baby latched on; I seem to just crumble in the evening/overnight, though, and end up a tearful mess . I feel really pathetic, and very much like baby is going to end up not liking me very much .

[AppleYumYum]

Oh you poor thing Bigold, congratulations on your new little one and I'm so sorry the birth was so traumatic. Definitely have a review of your birth (6 weeks post birth onwards) with the supervisor of midwives as it really can help make sense of it all and pass feedback to the staff.

Yes call the La Leche helpline for a start, they're so knowledgeable: www.laleche.org.uk/content/telephone-helpline

I also found //kellymom.com really helpful online reading for all sorts of problems.

[Justgotosleepnow]

Lactation consultant. If you afford it. Generally less than £100 and money well spent.
They will take a history and show you how to fix the latch & positioning and how to deal with the difficult times.

Your baby will love you whatever happens & however you feed.

Don't feel your body is letting you down- it's totally normal for milk to take days to come in. It's totally normal for newborns to yell. It's also unfortunately totally normal to not get the bf support and accurate information you need.

Hence my recommendation to go straight to an expert. If money is tight call NCT who might be able to get a bf councillor to see you. Or LLL who have regular meetings with very experienced bf knowledge.

Hugs, it's really hard when you feel awful, in pain and want to do your best but it's just bloody difficult

[AppleYumYum]

Anyway, hopefully someone more knowledgable will be along soon, but it takes 3 days to increase your supply so all this feeding she is doing will help that. Sometimes they like a fast flow, so you could try switch feeding. Swap from side to side when she pulls off eager from more, you continue to make milk as you feed. It is also very normal for evening witching hour behaviour, involving cluster feeding for hours sometimes. No one mentioned that to me and with my first I was stuck on the couch from 6pm till 11pm feeding until around 12 weeks it seemed. I was rewarded with a slightly longer sleep at night, but it was hard work.

Has the midwife checked your latch? Make sure you shove that nipple as far as you can down her throat. If you stick your finger in your mouth and feel along the roof back. As you go further back it goes from your hard palate to being soft and squishy. So you want your nipple to be reaching the baby's soft palate, otherwise it is being pushed up into the hard part which really hurts and does a lot of damage. Wait until she opens her mouth properly and don't go on with a bad latch, stick your little finger in and break the seal right away. It's a learning experience for both of you and she needs to learn the correct way to latch on too.

[SeptemberBabies]

Ask your midwife if there are any local breastfeeding groups. These usully have peer supporters.

[ClearlyMoo]

Firstly congratulations on your baby. It sounds like you've had a tough time of it and it's ok to be upset and frustrated. Massive well done for giving BF a go and for wanting it to work. It sounds as if your baby is chomping on you a bit making you sore/ not getting enough of your boob in his mouth to sustain the latch. I would say don't give up without first seeking proper physical local help. Agree with lactation consultant suggestion, there should hopefully also be an NCT BF counsellor in your area who you might be able to see or a peer supporter at a local breast feeding group.

I personally found helpful

Is it painful every time? Has anyone checked your baby for tongue tie?

[wimblehorse]

//www.lcgb.org
If you can pay I would definitely recommend getting a lactation consultant to come out to you. I had no joy with nct or laleche - only phone advice. Good luck op

[ClearlyMoo]

Sorry! Your baby is a girl - her

[ClearlyMoo]

Oooh also google "biological nurturing"!

[TheFantasticFixit]

Oh you poor love. I've been there and i know exactly how despairing you will feel at the moment. Do you have a lot of rl life support?

Firstly, i second the lactation consultant, and if that isn't an option then get onto your local NCT peer supporter. You may also have a baby brasserie locally where you can drop in and get advice on feeding and latch, and if you are up to going out (or when you are ready) they can be a good place to aim for each week.

Secondly, please look after you. This is so important and yet so hard to do in these early weeks. When you are feeling low it is easy to dismiss those feelings as baby blues. You've been through fucking hell. It is totally normal to be affected deeply by that. Please know that there is plenty of support out there to help you, emotionally and physically. Pm me if you would like to.

Expressing milk helped me enormously with both babies. It allowed my nipples to heal properly and gave me a break. If things get really hard, could you consider mix feeding? I did with my first in the end, although i had desperately wanted to bf. I couldn't physically do it all by myself, and emotionally was really detached from all the trauma so it was best for both her and I even though it felt like an enormously selfish thing at the time. It wasn't, and in all honesty, she was as fine with formula as she was with me.

Tiktok is the best poster to help you on here and if you post in breastfeeding she will soon be aling to support you.

Best of luck. You'll get through it, i promise

[Bigoldsupermoon]

Thank you so much, everyone, for the support, sympathy and suggestions - it means loads to know I'm not alone in this, even if it feels that way.

I don't have a lot of RL female support and although DH is really, really supportive, advice from women who've been there - which you lot obviously have - is far more helpful in practical terms. I think a lactation consultant is going to be the way forward.

The reason it's taken me a while to respond just now is that baby had latched on and had a good go on each breast (30 mins each) before falling asleep. The problem is, now, that she's screaming the house down and still hungry, and I'm back in tears. I'm so angry at myself because I've always been a 'whatever works for mum and baby' kind of person, but now it's me, I feel like a complete failure .

I'll respond more fully to your lovely posts in a wee while; for now, DH has taken baby away while I calm down, so I'm going to concentrate on doing that for now. Thank you, though, so much for the kind words - this feels like a real life-line.

[JustbeNormal]

I really, really empathise OP. In the early weeks my baby behaved this way too, he would feed for ages and immediately be hysterical and frantic. He would work himself up to a real frenzy looking for more milk. I was convinced he wasn't getting enough from me. I also had problems getting him to latch. Sometimes it would take an hour to get him on.

I don't know what it's like in your area but where I am there is a helpline manned by local breastfeeding support workers. I phoned one morning after feeding my baby from about 7pm until 4am. I thought I would lose my mind. Anyway I was in such a state on the phone that 2 support workers came to my house that afternoon. It was a real turning point for me. They gave me details of loads of breastfeeding support groups in my area. I went along and discovered my baby's behaviour was quite normal and sometimes they will want to feed and feed and feed, especially through the night. Google cluster feeding and see if you can relate.

This is only my experience but it does get easier. My baby is 14 weeks now and has settled really well into a routine of feeding every 3 hours or so. Sometimes at night he will sleep for 5 hours but usually it's 3. A lot better than constant feeding until 2, 3 or 4 am which was not uncommon in the early days.

For me , the breastfeeding support groups saved me. I still go to one every week. Find out if there are any groups near you and get yourself along. It's so nice to chat to other mums who have gone through it already. You will also get help with the latch and positioning.

I wish you the very best of luck. It's so hard in the beginning but it will get easier.

[callamia]

You are doing great, no matter how wretched you feel - you're definitely doing a great job.

I went through something similar after DS was released from nicu last year. I turned up at all the bf cafes in my area until I felt like we could do it. My nipples were shredded, he was hungry, I cried everytime he woke up. You know...

Thirty minutes feeding on each side is amazing. She will be feeding often to build up your supply, it might not mean that she's really starving hungry. A lactation consultant can check for tongue tie, which might cause problems; they can also advise on positioning and latch. They can also just help you to feel more confident.

Do you have adequate supplies of lansinoh? Have a look for your local la leche league - they might be able to advise on someone to come and help. I'm sorry you're going through this, it's the most difficult thing I've ever done, but there is another side to it - look forward to it.

[Justgotosleepnow]

Have you tried skin to skin before she gets screamy? That might calm her and she might feed more effectively.
And some babies just are screamy.
You will look back on this time as a tough time, but you will get through it.

A question- when she cries does her tongue curl up to the roof of her mouth? If it is miles away from the roof it might be a tongue tie. This is the simplest way I can describe what an obvious one looks like. My dd had this. I had no idea that what her mouth looked like was 'wrong'. We struggled til week 13 & tt was cut. Dark dark days for me.

But if you see an LC this week they can diagnose what the issues are, and I'm sure it will all improve. If you are in london area I can recommend an LC.

Hang in there op, glad your DH is being supportive. It will get better, there is help out there.

[Nickname1980]

I had a sort-of similar thing to you. Milk came late, gave DS formula, incredibly painful breastfeeding... I cried every day for the first two or three weeks. I look back now and I feel a bit sad that I didn't enjoy my time with him then. BUT he is now 8.5 months and still breastfed (I WANT to stop now, actually!). That mixed feeding start didn't stop him from getting there eventually.

I saw a breastfeeding expert - Geraldine Miskin - and she changed everything for me. To be honest, I just wanted to hear whether or not bf'ing was possible. She diagnosed the problems and gave me a plan.

Good luck - you will get there. (I should add that I am in no way the breastapo, I think that formula feeding is fantastic too. I just know how it feels to really want to breastfeed.)

[Inbl00m]

Don't have much to add to all the helpful advice above but just wanted to say well done for persevering. Bf is so hard in the beginning!

[Bigoldsupermoon]

So grateful to everyone who took the time to post on here last night - I did keep meaning to update but it was another really stressful night. As soon as I had something positive to report (a nice long feed, for ex.), we'd take a step back with a massive crying fit.

We were up basically all night - she had some really long feeds but then wouldn't settle. She's having less formula than she was, which feels like a positive thing, and the midwife's been this lunchtime, which has helped me a bit. Apparently, I need to be eating more, and baby's also been referred to someone with a view to her having a possible posterior tongue-tie (thank you, Justgottosleepnow for flagging that!).

I emailed a LC yday and am waiting on a response; meanwhile, I've got some local newborn/BFing groups earmarked and down in the diary. I've also got the numbers of some local NCT support volunteers who are happy to do home visits; I'll just have to keep trying everything.

So sorry to hear that some of you went through the same horrible struggles with your babies - thank you, though, for using those experiences to support another worn-out mum: it's so, so appreciated.

[Justgotosleepnow]

Yay! Great progress well done
Follow up on the groups you've found and leave a vm for the LC & a back up LC as well. They are self employed and can be very busy.
Hang in there, you are doing it

[AppleYumYum]

Well done Bigold! You've really sprung into action and it's going to only get better from here now you've sought help. It will all seem like a fuzzy memory when you look back at her 1st birthday, I promise, you may even laugh in a kind of mad hysterical way

[dennant]

Just a quick one, i don't know where you are based but my local by support charity has a lactation consultant run a free drop in session at their cafe. Maybe look into that before you spend a lot of cash?

[violetbean]

Sounds like you are doing really well after such a traumatic birth. I went through some fairly similar issues and baby was formula fed for the first 2 weeks. Below are the things that helped me establish breastfeeding. Baby is now 10.5 months and breastfeeding beautifully despite our very rocky start. It took 6 weeks or so for it to start feeling 'ok' and another 3 months or so before it felt 'nice', with little or no pain. I really enjoy it now. It was so hard at the beginning though.

To get baby feeding I:

1. Phoned national breastfeeding network for advice
   
2. Read loads of articles about increasing supply on Kellymom
   
3. Used nipple shields for 2-3 days (to get him to latch on) - but sounds like your little one may not need this if she is latching already
   
4. Used tonnes of lansinoh
   
5. Expressed 8x a day for 3-4 days, including between 1-6am - hired a hospital grade pump for 2 weeks to help with this. Expressing this often was the biggest thing that helped increase my supply and get him feeding.
   
6. Breastfed in the bath where we were both relaxed - this was the first time he really latched properly.
   
7. Went to a breastfeeding cafe.
   
8. Got confirmation from GP that he didn't have tongue tie.
   

He still has a bit of formula sometimes when we run out of expressed milk and he's being looked after by someone else. It's certainly life-saving stuff and I'm so grateful for it!

Hope you have a good night tonight, thinking of you.

[SASASI]

Different as DS had tongue tie which was snipped at 10 days but I exclusively expressed when my milk came in (hard graft, sterilising etc) then gradually got him latched on with nipple shields after the snip - horrendously hard work & many tears from us both, took a couple of weeks to get on top of it then at 8 weeks he latched on without the shields & we are doing great (10wks old now). And it's really worth the perseverance.

So you have my utmost sympathy, I know how awful it is & like you I had said if it works it works. I just knew I would regret giving up no matter how hard it was or how upset I got. MW told me it was a battle of the wills & he wouldn't starve. DH & mum were amazing support - you really need it, especially after a c-section. Are there any breastfeeding support groups near you? My MW was fab, HV not so much.

I just got really really determined to crack it. It's a learning curve for you both & practice makes perfect. Good luck.

[upandawayy]

Just wanted to add that you're doing a great job. Establishing breastfeeding is so hard and it feels like it'll never get easier but it really does and she will scream less too. You're doing brilliantly and it's well worth paying for a proper breastfeeding consultant to help you too

[Bigoldsupermoon]

Just a quick update - LC came today; she was fabulous! In case anyone else is based in the NW and looking for an LC, she's here: www.facebook.com/katemcfaddenlactationconsultant

She's confirmed that baby has a posterior tongue tie, and worked with me to get her latched using nipple shields while we wait for our referral. It was so much easier and far less painful; I managed to sit back comfortably rather than being hunched over like a crab, and baby was able to feed without being pushed and pushed to latch.

We're still topping up with formula at the end of feeds, which the LC supported whole-heartedly because I'm not quite producing enough milk, and she's recommended fenugreek to help bring the milk in more fully as well. Fingers crossed that, now baby can latch and stay latched, my flow gets going and we really get into the swing of things.

As ever, so grateful to everyone who's posted - this thread has helped me massively. I feel far more empowered, and less alone, so huge thanks to everyone who's taken the time to contribute and offer support.