to know where DH lives and overnight access for DS

[Ezma]

Now, this is first time on AIBU so please be gentle but honest! ExH and I split up 10 months ago, we have 2yr DS. As these things are, it was all a very horrible for the first few months but as I've gotten my life back on track, it's all been better to the point where we can actully see each other without it descending into arguments.

We're now trying to sort out between ourselves better access arrangements to DS for my exH, including overnight visits (partly because good for DS to have contact with exH and, being selfish I want to have some time to myself.

At the beginning exH was lodging with mutual friends, a couple of months later he went to stay with a friend from his work. Just before Xmas, I found out that he'd actually moved into a flat of his own about 40 minutes train ride away. Not ideal but I was more pissed off as I inadvertently found out that he'd moved from mutual friends rather than him telling me himself. With hindsight, I can understand to an extent why he didn't tell me because I was probably still in angry psycho mood (I strongly suspected and still do that exH had Plan B in place before jumping ship IYSWIM).

Now that we are at the point of discussing overnight access whilst I think he is at the point where he is capable enough of looking after DS overnight (another v. long story and main reason for split), he still hasn't told me his address/ living arrangements. I don't want to know just so that I can stalk him or, if he is living with someone else, go and shout at them etc. etc. but I do think, as we are both adults, we should be able to act in a mature, responsible way and that includes me knowing where DS (I wouldn't be so worried if DS was older but he is only just 2) actually is when he is staying with his dad for the weekend especially if there was an emergency. The longer that it goes on like this the more it makes me think that exH really has something that he is hiding. However, I have tried to tell him that I am in a really good place nowadays and if he had met someone else, yes, I would be pissed off if it had started before we split but I'm having lots of fun myself nowadays .

It seems such a shame, as I kind of feel that I can't allow overnight access until I know an address and if he is living with someone else (be it flatmate/ gf whatever). Given that we are in for the long haul in terms of co-parenting DS, surely we need to create an environment where we can be honest with each other and build up trust? So AIBU?

[Ezma]

Just realised that I am a terrible waffler - sorry!

[marriednotdead]

YANBU to want to know where your ds is overnight. Anything can happen and you need to know where to find him. Ex sounds as if he is wary of you or hiding someone, have you a history of stalking then

[EightiesChick]

YANNNNBU to ask this when your child will be staying there overnight. How on earth can you know it's OK for DS without that info? can you ask for mediation of some kind while you discuss it? You wil need to be uoltra reasonable and calm though - just remember that your request is perfectly normal so yo have no reason to be otherwise yourself. Point out that you wouldn't let DS go to a friend's house without knowing the address, would you? What if you got rushed to hospital and they needed to send someone out to get DS?

[ilovemydogandMrObama]

Is your ex having unsupervised contact at the moment? It may be that you will need to build up to over night visits anyway, so there is time. Is he asking for over night visits, or is this just something you are concerned about?

Maybe you could simply tell him that you don't care where he lives, but will need to know where DS will be over night. It could be that he won't tell you where he lives, but will agree to taking DS to his father's.

[Ezma]

It's all a bit complicated. Perhaps in the beginning I might have been tempted to see where ex is actually living etc. (cue visions of Glenn Close and bunny boiling but I think many women go through that) but tbh, I'm now well and truly in a place where I've moved on from him emotionally IFSWIM and I just want what's best for DS.

ilove, yes, he has had unsupervised daytime contact with DS pretty much since the outset although for a long time I couldn't face ex so it was MIL that did pick ups/ drop offs. Ex is asking for overnight visits and actually looked after DS for me for a weekend a couple of weeks ago when I was away. He took him to my SIL (who lives a couple of hours drive away) so I knew where he was and that ex had plenty of help and support. I say that I knew where he was but I did take a huge leap of faith and I'm sure ex wouldn't be stupid enough (I'm being generous here!) to lie about that as I have SILs telephone number so could have phoned at any time to check up but I didn't as I thought that would make me look a control freak (which I am to an extent anyway ) It's not that I don't think ex would do a bad job but I'm just concerned about not knowing where DS is if we agree to overnight stays on future occassions. Ideally, it would be great for everyone if it could be every other weekend. I really really want to put my trust in ex but this is for me a huge stumbling block. I have tried to explain this in a clear and rational manner and ex even said last week that he understood my position and then this week, it's as if he has the memory of a goldfish as he's now questioning what is obstructing overnight access!

[lucky1979]

Have you actually asked him what his address is? If he's been there for a while he might have forgotten you don't know.

[Ezma]

lucky, I have asked god knows how many times over the past (nearly) six months. I have said that once we are in the throes of the divorce itself, he is going to have to disclose his address anyway so what is the point of refusing/ "forgetting" to tell me when I ask him. Admittedly, when I first found out that he'd rented a flat (and given the area it's in which I do at least know it's not going to be a cheap place) I did go ape but I honestly though that things had got to a point where we could talk about things reasonably. I feel as if I'm the one that is making concessions/ being honest but as long as he gets his own way then it's all fine and dandy for him to take the piss. I'm really trying not to get angry about it as I know that it does me no good and it doesn't do the situation any good but I just don't understand why he's being so thick? The only reason I can think of is that he is living with someone and he's too chicken to tell me (not a surprise given his previous behaviour).

[Ezma]

oh and conveniently, he doesn't have land line apparently!

[homebirthmummy4]

hmmmph if you dont know his address, my suggestion of getting a solicitors letter to him is pretty pointless isnt it....could you send one care of his parents address?

[Ezma]

have thought about solicitor's letter being sent to his work on the basis that it would be pretty humiliating to get that in front of work colleagues and doesn't make him look v. good either. Not sure how MIL would react to a letter landing on her doorstep. We get on ok but ex is vey much her little boy still. She would either give him a kick up the arse that it had come to this or she would think that I was being a bitch. On the basis that in all other respects, we seem to be making progress on how we handle the separation, I don't want to inflame the situation and if I chose either of those options, he would hit the roof and we would be back to where were at Xmas.

[thumbwitch]

I would NOT Be allowing overnight access without knowing where it was. TBH, I'd want to see the place myself to check it was safe and appropriate as well, especially if there were any doubts as to his abilities in the care arena. At 2yo, better safe than sorry, IMO.

[heth1980]

Agree with thumbwitch.........not only would i want the address, i would want to see the place for myself to make sure it was suitable and safe. You are not being at all unreasonable.

[Ezma]

thumbwitch, I completely agree with you and that would be the ideal scenario. When I have raised this previously (albeit probably in a rather snotty fashion) my ex just gets all high and mighty and says that he is perfectly capable of looking after DS and that should be enough to satisfy me. I would love to be able to check out where he is living (as much to see how well he can actually cook for himself, do his own washing etc when he's had very little prior experience of either ) because as much as anything my ex may not really know what a 2yo (especially DS) can get up to when let loose somewhere new with lots of shiny gadgets and things to "play" with aka. stick fingers into, up nose etc.

It would even be nice to think that we could share the travel bit between us so that perhaps I take DS up to where he lives (nice shopping and restaurants up there ) and he then brings him back or vice versa. It would all be so much more civilised that way. Perhaps I am just wishing for an ideal that never actually happens in rl....

[thumbwitch]

Ezma - I see your point but I absolutely would not allow my DS to stay somewhere if I didn't know where it was. Regardless of the protestations of my ex.

The only mitigation would be if his mother had seen the place and said it was safe/appropriate - if she can be made to act as go-between in this scenario, that might be ok (you trust her judgement, do you?)

[Meglet]

YANBU. I would want to know where it was and probably just have a quick look inside to make sure it really was ok for a toddler.

[autodidact]

He's definitely being unreasonable. Both parents need to know where their child is at all times, pretty much, if only for basic safety reasons. The bottom line is that he tells you the address or doesn't get overnight access, I'd have thought. If he wants to play hardball and go through the courts they'd say the same thing, I'm sure. I would spell out to him that you don't give a flying stuff about who he's shagging/living with (even if you do care a bit really because it shows what a traitorous cocklodger he is and has been for some time) as long as he's providing a safe loving environment for your son and you know where that environment is in case of emergency.

[HobbitMama]

YANBU - been here with my ex twice in the past, but he's never hidden where he lives - I would have to say that it does sound like he's living with someone, as I can't think of a reasonable excuse to not tell you. thumbwith has a good point - maybe suggesting a more neutral person does the look-round would be more acceptable, but you would still need the address when DS goes, for emergency reasons.

[Ezma]

Thumbwitch, I do and I don't trust MIL. I don't know how far she would go to protect/ assist her own DS even though she has in the past been pretty disapproving of him/ his behaviour. If she thought she was helping DS and by concealing the truth from me was doing that/ protecting me then I'm not sure I could just go on her word. Besides, we've not always seen eye to eye on how I bring up DS so what might be ok for her is most definitely not for me.

Auto, I think I do need to spell it out once and for all exactly what is required from him in order to satisfy me and what I am actually entitled to on a legal footing. I do feel a bit selfish in trying to push this to be sorted out as I want to have some time to myself. I would obviously care a teensy bit if he was shacked up with someone else but that leads me to worry if ex is living with gf then I would also want to meet her and make sure that she is ok to be around my DS. Again, I don't want to be a control freak but dealing with a young child if you've had no experience of them/ they're not yours can bring out a very different side in someone that can be very unpleasant as it is a very stressful position to be in.

Right, I am off to send that email to ex and then wait for fireworks!

[thumbwitch]

Ezma - I presume your MIL would be sufficienly concerned about the safety of her own DGS to take note of the appropriateness of the dwelling and safety issues, wouldn't she? Presumably she doesn't do anything stupid like give him sharp knives/matches/bull terriers to play with unsupervised?

Agreed her ways might be different to yours but if she cares about her DGS she is going to want him to be safe as well, I would have thought.

Anyway - see what happens - stand firm on knowing the address, ask to see the place and then you have the bargaining tool of using MIL (or perhaps a mutual friend who also has small DC) to check the place over as a compromise.

[autodidact]

Good luck. I think it sounds like you are being v honest with yourself in what is a difficult situation and doing your darndest to separate very understandable residual feelings at the breakup from what's best for your son. And it's not selfish AT ALL to want a break. God knows we all need one!

[Tanga]

Well, I'm going against the tide then, 'cos I think if you have a contact number (eg mobile phone) you have no right to refuse overnight access. Unless you think he is genuinely incapable of taking care of the child (which you don't, because you 'allow' unsupervised contact) then you are being unecessarily controlling. Of course he should just give you the address and be done with it, but you say yourself you went through a psycho phase when you split and this whole building up of trust thing works both ways.

I'm sure there's more back story to it but the really important thing is that the bond between child and Dad is strengthened through regular, quality contact - and I'm sorry, I don't believe for one minute that all RP's inform the other parent if they go away for a night. And of course, if he does go to court, yes, you'll get his address, but you certainly won't be given the right to 'vet' any place he decides to take the child.

[Ezma]

Thank you auto, very kind!

Thumbwitch, I don't think she'd be that daft but her concept of some things is pretty far out sometimes.

Anyway, email sent and have asked for: address, details of living arrangements, for him to get a landline sorted and also that I get to have a look around it before we agree on overnight visits.

Tried to sound reasonable and friendly but also firm as to what I expected. If he kicks off then I'll call MIL and explain that I am having problems communicating my concerns with her DS and perhaps she will talk some sense into him!

Will keep you updated and god, if I wasn't sat at my desk right now, I'd be slugging a large glass of wine!

[Ezma]

Tanga, until two weeks ago he'd never looked after DS overnight. Even when together he'd never put him to bed, made meals for him - nothing to do with his basic care so was pretty clueless. When he has had daytime access, my MIL has been there on the majority of occassions.

I know I have tendencies towards being a control freak and I have tried to reign that in hence trying to approach this in a more measured fashion. As for being psycho, that was perhaps a bit of an exaggeration but I just wanted to explain how distraight I was when I first separated from ex. I always admire those who can split from their partners amicably as I learnt very early on and the hard way that that is the exception and not the rule. Besides, that was 6 months plus now and I have gone through the being angry, bitter, moping in a corner phase (which I think is perfectly normal btw). I'm not having a go (after seeing other AIBU threads go stellar I'm really not spoiling for a fight or anything!) but it's difficult to trust someone who has lied/ wriggled their way out of so many awkward situations over the past 12 months plus. I think on that basis, whilst I do appreciate it is about building up trust again, that my ex should at least be honest for once in his life? I think, given the circumstances, I have done a pretty damn good job of raising DS (and I don't think you are questioning my parenting skills btw) and that should be enough for my ex to be able to rebuild trust in me but equally, I have always been honest and upfront about everything and my feelings as well.

[EightiesChick]

I have to say, I'm not sure what right you have to ask him to get a landline. Many people don't have them anymore. The address, yes, and anyone else living in the house, maybe - not sure you have a legal case to know this either, though in your shoes I would want to. However, am speaking off the top of my head and not from legal knowledge so I'm sure others will know more than I do.