Hear, hear, onagar!

LupusinaLlamasuit, I read the whole thread you patronising young person!!!

It's possible that a lot of people have understood the issues and still think this was a thread hijack by people with too much time on their hand. This and the gay lunchbox ffs.

Not everything is an ism or ist, but it seems to be a popular hobby these days (or maybe just on MN) to look for it everywhere.

I'd like a definition of 'old' too as I am in my fifties and I want to know if that entitles me to special treatment.

I would still like a definition of 'old', to my DS 30 yrs is old! I would say that you have to be over 80yrs to be old- and by then people could make a few allowances.

hocus: Do you really think that is funny? What is your way of getting through the day?

But they're OLD. It's their way of getting through the day

hocus -fair point but really how many times has a mean thug looking person said something like that? Very very rarely I would imagine,they are more likely to be helping you onto the bus IME!! I certainly have never had people says things apart from the exact type of person the op refers to. If people give their opinions then they should expect others to give theirs

But why did you 'give her a piece of your mind'? Why the anger? If you had to say anything why not 'It's probably too far to walk that's why' and leave it there.

Would you have got responded in the same way if a large mean-looking thug type had said the same thing?

The op used the term 'old lady' to replace 'horrible old cow' so it appears that the op wanted us to know what she really meant when she said 'old lady'. Seemed to be a bit sneery to me. But maybe I read too much into it.

What was the relevance of how old the lady was? Did we need to know? Or was it to have a go at older people generally?
Why weren't we treated to the age of the lady with the pram?
I do happen to think that mentioning that the lady was old was relevant. As other people have said sometimes it needs to be taken into account and sometimes allowances made for age. But not just to sneer at.

onagar, if you read the whole thread, and some of the wider debate on ageism, you would realise that the use of old in the ways used is not just descriptive. Old is almost always used in context.

Age Concern/Help the Aged, the Open University and the SCIE Institute (google them) have some very good free resources on how extensive and pernicious ageism is in British culture.

maltesers said joesmummy was supporting a friend, I was pointing out that she wasn't.

Btw a tall thin black guy gave me directions the other day and I have NO problem with using that description.

It's only bad if you think being black is something shameful and something no one would want bringing up. Same for 'old'. I bet if we were all in the same room now people here would refer to me as "that old guy over there" and think nothing of it.

Should she only have spoken up if it was for a friend and if it profited her by her friend knowing and being grateful?

That explains a lot about the way things are going.

"The old biddy prob had it coming. !!! lol "

And you find that funny?

A bit short on tolerance yourself, maltesers?

And joesmummy wasn't supporting a friend. She didn't even realise who it was until later. Plus the friend didn't get on the bus so wouldn't have known about joesmummy's response.

'Old people are very outspoken'

All old people?!!!!

Old people are very outspoken.....they just dont care..
No excuse, but my parents at 78 and 81 say anything and are very intolerant nowadays.
\You were only supporting your friend...JOESMUMMY09..dont worry bout it. The old biddy prob had it coming. !!! lol

It's an unfortunate fact that for some, ageing means not just ageing physically but also experiencing changes in personality. I disagree with those that are saying that a person who is rude on a bus, who happens to be old, was probably always rude even when they were younger.

I just don't think this is the case for all older people. A large number of people DO seem to display a decline in awareness of what is acceptable to say out loud in public. I remember when I was due to give birth any day to DS1 and I was in the supermarket huffing and puffing and looking at the displays of Christmas cards. The shelves were really in a mess, and as I was looking at the cards on one shelf, a packet of cards from the shelf below just fell off of its own accord because it had been balanced precariously anyway.

An old lady in a wheelchair tutted loudly and shouted "Well, pick it up then! Tsk....these youngsters! (I was 30!)" assuming I'd knocked it off the shelf and wasn't going to bother putting it back. Even though I hadn't knocked the packet off the shelf AND I was struggling to pick it up from the floor being the size of a whale, she embarrassed me enough to make me pick it up and put it back. Her daughter who was pushing the wheelchair was so embarrassed and said "Mum!" and mumbled a "sorry" at me and looked really sheepish and apologetic. I, of course, came home and moaned about her behaviour to DH, referring to her as "some horrible old woman".

These days, looking back on that incident, I find it hard to get annoyed. I'm pretty sure that in her younger days, she wouldn't have been so cantankerous - the way her daughter was so sheepish and nice suggested otherwise.

I'm also going through seeing my 75 year old father go through personality changes the past year or two. Not becoming rude and cantankerous, but very withdrawn and resigned to sitting in a corner doing nothing. I know he hasn't always been like that but I can imagine a teenager who doesn't know him meeting him and thinking "miserable old git."

I just think it's important to remember that while some people DO keep their personality with them when they get older, for many others, they simply behave quite differently from how they would have when they were younger. If that makes me ageist, then so be it.

It's just very hard to distinguish between those older people who are being genuinely rude and those who have lost their ability to realise what's socially acceptable.

A man (40 ish) in the supermarket looked at DS2 (aged 3) recently when he was being a bit whingey and shouted "Oh fuck off!" at him and walked off! As horrified as I was, luckily DS2 took no notice and I took it that the man had some kind of mental disorder, be it Tourette's or something else. I COULD have screamed abuse at him, or called for security to have a word with him as it was just near the entrance, but I just think it's important to consider possible reasons WHY people might say the things they say, and temper our response accordingly.

Very difficult not to say the first thing that comes into your head though, I agree!

I try and avoid buses, but I am lucky in that I drive a car.
I also avoid:
parent and toddler car parking spaces.
Parking anywhere deemed remotely near the entrance to ANYWHERE in the entire universe but again I am fit and healthy.
Lifts where possible
trying to board/alight an aircraft before everyone else (hey it is not going to take off until I get on the plane too)
I find this often alleviates the "rude people" problem and helps to keep me a little saner.

A tall person was rude to me the other day. Does saying that make me 'heightist'?

It isn't very helpful anyway-how old is old?

oh yes seeker!!! some ppl on here are very rude too !!

Absolutely people should challenge rudeness. Some people are very rude indeed.

What I don't find acceptable is the use of the word "old" in this context. No one would think it OK to use ""black or "disabled" as descriptors - how come it's OK to use "old"?

The lady wasn't being rude to joesmummy. She was passing comment generally. Joesmummy took it upon herself to defend people with prams.
And it was joesmummy who drew attention to the fact that the lady was old.

I say well said to Joesmummy. She makes the most important point, that people are missing here. She was angry towards the lady AFTER the lady had been rude to her! Not because she was old!

tiredemma thats awfull

I remember working for British Telecom about 13 years ago as an operator. One christmas day I had to work and I recall getting a 192 call come through from an old lady who asked if I knew a number of anywhere that may be doing christmas meals for the elderly who were alone.



God it depressed me, I went home on a low.

Lupusina and Seeker - Think what you say is true. I have pet theory that as we are all tribal in some way or other, then the groups that it is socially acceptable to carp about have decreased. I think tis often based on ideas about what constitutes the 'other'. I have come across people who would never say a word about black people or people with disabilities but just don't go there re. gypsies (or insert group of choice). It's as tho it's all transferred in some way. Think ageing is a bit different as hopefully most of us will do it in quite large nos. I had a back problem recently which went of for quite a while. One day I suddenly realised that I wasn't just in pain and knackered - it was like I'd been given a training course in being old. I was a horror - if it had been combined with imminent demise and looking really crinkly I think it would have pushed me right over the edge. Have made notes and will try to do better

I agree Lupus. I do have the odd conversation with old people which are very pleasant. I am also aware that sometimes I am the only person they have spoken to all day so I try to make the effort, even if only chatting about the weather.

TBH when I started this thread it hadn't even occurred to me that people would seize on the old thing as it didn't seem relevant to me other than scene setting. I thought I was posting about rudeness and challenging it in public - which I am not used to doing.

Although I get the point you and various people have made

But equally, it is important not to assume that the 'age' is all the person is (as with disability). Most older people live happily independently, with no major disabilities but often some minor ones, are not demented or mentally impaired and are just as diverse as the rest of society.

If all you can see is the age, then you're being ageist.

screamingabdab, no. But work in a research unit with closely related interests. And do some teaching on these issues.

Joesmummy, it's a good question and I do think rudeness should be challenged and people should not be 'let off' because they are old. It would be patronising to not extend the same membership of society because of some physical issue.

But it is complex. As with disability, we are more used to just being rude and ignoring and making assumptions about old people. Mostly people have no idea what it is like to be old because oldness is feared and excluded.

As others have said, there ARE some bits of physical ageing that might make issues about mobility and inhibition more complex. If an older person has a hearing impairment or cannot move fast or is spatially impaired (if they've had a stroke for example) then they might struggle on a bus. There should be more solidarity I think between mothers with pushchairs and toddlers in tow, pregnant women and older people with impairments because you're never going to get a better example of what it is like to be old and facing obstacles to full membership of society than when you become a mother. It certainly opened my eyes.

I was brought up to treat elderly with respect and did so, whatever the situation was. I did change a few years ago when this old couple in the park laughed at DS2 who had just been pushed in a puddle of mud by a dog. My poor Ds(4yo at the time)was scared, wet and cold and they found it funny. I shouted at them that if they found it so funny to land in cold mud I would be happy to oblige, they did not answer anything to me but it stopped them laughing there and then!

TBH I did not know I had it in me and found it somehow very liberating. I since decided that regardless of age, I reserve he right to let people know they are being horrible when circumstances allow it!

Good for you JoesMummy - i would have said something as well. No one regardless of age has the 'right' to be rude.

A lot of old people are rude, they think they can get away with it but really they have no more 'right' to be rude than the next person. I dont see many people sticking up for kids that are rude, instead people say how disrespectful they are etc etc etc

As the OP I would like to point out that I only labelled this lady a horrible old cow after the incident.

I have applied this term (mainly in my head tbh) about people of various ages from 20s onwards. But only after their behaviour has, IMO, justified the internal rant.

Serious question - Do you think if you ignored someone's behaviour because they were old that would be discriminating against them?

I think screamingabdab makes a good point with
"I think that the buggy-old person face-off can be quite well explained by the fact that , by and large, the two groups are travelling at the same times of day. Imagine if you tried to travel in rush-hour ....."

I would imagine that a rush hour journey would turn up quite a few rude people who were not senior citizens.

Lupus Do you work with older people or in a charity ?

bumpsoon - that is my experience of teenagers too for the most part. Just like labrador puppies . Having said that I have to say I've met very few unpleasant older people.

Yup. That's yoofs, bless 'em

I remember waiting for a bus and an old lady was moaning about the school kids who get on saying how she was frightened of them . When the bus arrived i asked the first two lads standing behind us if they would kindly help get my buggy on and the ladies shopping trolley ,which they obligingly did and when it was our stop they hurtled down the bus ,from the back obviousley and helped us get them off before jumping back on with a cheery wave . I told the lady that yoofs are generally like labrador puppies ,daft but good natured

Going all the way back to page one now but wanted to tell Riven that although that must have been annoying for you, I laughed heartily (in solidarity!) at the thought of you piping up over and over again as new pieces of your mind occurred to you.

I wish I'd been a passenger on that bus to see that. Please tell me it was a 2 hour bus journey?

I utterly agree that there is awful ageism against the young.

But the difference is that on the whole, young people have more power and potential to step aside from that ageism than older people. They will also get older and will be treated as fuller members of society as they become economically active or develop other kinds of status.

Older people are ignored, denigrated, casually abused by the public, treated awfully in the healthcare and financial systems, exluded from full participation in society, derided and laughed at.

hear , not here (der ..)

littlepurpleprincess Yes, some are ageist, just as some of us, no doubt are fearful of and misunderstand teenagers.

All you can do is challenge yours and their assumptions, so I would say something to someone who was rude to me, regardless of their age.

I agree that it is very fear-driven. When you work with older people, even the oldest and most ill or vulnerable as I have, you realise that there (of course!) are many as many individual differences between people over the age of 70 as there are between people of 40.

Oh, and I think as well as some losses, old age does include gains, which sadly our society does not value. Older people can become marginalised and so are more misunderstood.

I wish schools would invite more older people in, so that the generations can mix and learn from each other. There is an Age Concern project which involved children going into nursing homes and teaching residents to use Nintendo Wii for recreation and exercise, and other projects teaching residents to use email to contact relatives, and internet to shop. Also reminiscence projects where kids here about historical events from older people who went through them

I expect that they are rude to one another. Rude people are rude full stop.

I agree that I wouldn't be rude to someone because of their age either. But some of the comments on this thread are fairly offensive about the elderly.

But don't you think the older generation are equally guilty of ageism? I rarely see them be rude to one another, but there are loads of examples on this thread alone of elderly women being rude to young mothers.

I wouldn't delibrately be rude to someone because of their age, so why is it ok the other way around? And if we stand up to them, we are being ageist (sp)?

And dare ye wear a hoodie! It's cold, I am a fan of Blink 182. That's it. I'm not going to mug you. I'm not going to ^eat your brains^ because you've sat next to me.

They are not being chastised for simply being old, it's because they are being RUDE!

Well exactly lupus. It's very prevalent.

I think it's a collective terror - we're all going to be there one day so we go into denial. I think there is nothing more tragic than being old, losing many of your friend and family, seeing the world you know slipping away and then being chastised by younger people for simply being old, slow, doddery or bad-tempered. A little empathy and tolerance is needed.

Well, let's have a look at some of the examples from early on in the thread shall we?

horrible old cow
nasty old crones charming old dears

Both from the OP

old woman on my bus with a huge shopping trolley moaning

snotty old gits on buses. I am afraid to say it is women as well in particular [way to go ABD, two sweeping generalisations in one go...]

I beg to differ that these are 'just' descriptive and not ageist...

I assumed she was setting the scene eith the use of 'old'

I too read into the "old" bit the overturning of the convention that you show more respect to an old person and therefore having a go at her is more controversial than having a go at any randomly aged individual on a bus.

Seeker that's the beauty of language surely? Conversation, written or otherwise would be boring as hell if everything was confined to the very bare facts. Description helps to set the scene regardless of what is being discussed, it doesn't always have to have negative connotations unless you choose to read into it.

hmmmm posted twice.

i have a dislike to people that are rude too senior citzens makes my blood boil but i dont think the op was anyway being nasty just voicing her disaproval of what the lady said.i have many times come across rude sc's and young people(this 17 year old tried to push infront of a 80 year old man and the scummy teenager punched him to the ground) but i grin and bear it because i will be a sc in 40 years and i hate disrespect.

i have a dislike to people that are rude too senior citzens makes my blood boil but i dont think the op was anyway being nasty just voicing her disaproval of what the lady said.i have many times come across rude sc's and young people(this 17 year old tried to push infront of a 80 year old man and the scummy teenager punched him to the ground) but i grin and bear it because i will be a sc in 40 years and i hate disrespect.

So why say "old lady" in the title?

How do "AIBU to have given a black lady a piece of my mind?" or "AIBU to have given a disabled lady a piece of my mind? sound?

This is why the £8 per day congestion charge is worth it, and why I would still drive into London if it was £50. I can't bear the slanging match that public transport has become. It's all so me me me, what happened to compassion and empathy and consideration?

FGS. No one said all old people are like this. Just some are.

As for bags on seats - why put them there in the first place and why wait to be asked to move them when it is plainly a full bus and my DSs are plainly walking up and down the aisle looking for an empty seat while being thrown around as the bus accelerates and goes round corners?

That is what I OBJECT to.

WRT to bags on seats, can people not just ask their fellow passenger to move the bags?

As predicted by me right at the beginning ........

I do find myself more and more aware of casual prejudice which just would not be voiced about other groups of people.

To me, it makes no sense at all to denigrate older people. They are us, and at the moment they get a pretty raw deal in society

Yes she was (rude) greensleeves. But just like the last thread like this, a whole raft of posters piled in to generalise about how crap, nasty and rude old people are. Why does it matter that she was old? If it doesn't, why say it?

'Horrible old cow' doesn't seem like someone surprised by the respect issue to me...

my reading of the thread title was that "old lady" was the phrase used because it is considered MORE wrong to be disrespectful towards an old lady - it's kind of shocking to be rude to an old lady

but I think the OP was entirely justified and not rude at all

this particular old lady was an ignorant git.

substitute other 'just' descriptors such as black, gay, disabled and see if you're just as comfortable?

The problem is we are so very used to using age in a derogatory way we have no idea most of the time why it might be ageist. I posted some links to stretch people's thinking on this issue on the last ageist thread and like Seeker, I can't be arsed posting them again. If you want to find out why it is ageist do go to Help the Aged or AgeConcern, or even better ask an older person whether ageism exists or not...

Not sure if I should be taking exception to cheesesarnie's use of old coach.

But I don't think I can be arsed

Good post seeker

I cant get into moaning about OAP's- that will be me one day. The doddery old lady that no-one takes serious anymore.

Thinking of old people makes me feel a bit sad actually.

Lupus and seeker Here Here!

LupusinaLlamasuit more right on than Allison Pearson any way

I don't think she was rude because she was old, I think she was rude because she was rude.

Old is descriptive really. And she was old so don't see the problem.

<prepares to duck behind the parapit (sp??)>

well said seeker.
i also couldnt be arsed.

you should all think yourself lucky.if a bus ever decides to come our way its a old coach,buggies must be folded and held or shovved between yourself and window.

I was about to say something about the hideous casual ageism that seems completely acceptable on Mumsnet and in RL, but I just really can't be bothered.

In a very few years time you will suddenly discover that you are the same person you've always been, but nobody sees it, You will no longer be an individual, but an "old person"

What goes around comes round.

Phew glad I'm not associated with her!

If you're a bit right on Joesmummy you really should acquaint yourself with the debates about why the label old used in your post fuels ageism. No?

Oh I loathe the Mail. Vile tat.

I'm afraid I'm much more right-on and a bit of a lefty! Hence the remonstrating with people on buses

No, not associating you with her. I just think her take on this would have been rather different and less inclined to endear the author to us!

ooh I don't think I want to be associated with Allison Pearson . I'll look up that thread - thanks UnquietDad.

joesmummy - she'd like you to think she would have the latter, although in reality I suspect said toddler would have been looked after by nanny while Allison travelled in first-class air-conditioned accommodation

Would Allison Pearson be wielding a tartan shopping trolley loaded with bricks or a buggy with a teething toddler after a sleepless night?

I really don't know who she is. Is she v famous?

Daily Mail writer. Author of a rant about "a lady in a burqa" who was fare-dodging on a train, supposedly. Thread about her recently on here.

'it is like someone took the entire population and aged them in some dastardly plot.'

Yes Worthing is like that.

And funnily enough so is the rest of the world. Bigots grow old. As do lentil weavers. As do you. And I. And everyone.

Some of you them are rude, grumpy bastards. Some of you them are light and sunny and interesting and interested.

Some of you just like to make sweeping judgements about other people. Who would like to join me in the wager that those making sweeping judgements about old people, flip over into those being rude to and making sweeping judgements about young people when they're older? Huh?

Who is Allison Pearson?

I think Allison Pearson needs to write an article about this...

I was on the bus once with my sister, both of us had babies in buggies. We parked in the space and stood next to them. Two ladies got on behind us and sat next to where we were standing. They then began to talk in a "loud and clear as I want to be heard" voice discussing how single mums were awful and that "they" walked everywhere when they had children (many moons ago). Oh they also commented about the size of prams.
Both me and my sister are married and wear rings.
I made eye contact with her and was extra specially nice to her when she was trying to get up at her stop.
kill them with kindness.

Just realised I blew up my own pro-public transport arguements over on the Why do you not use public transport thread

toddlerama Yes, you are right. Impairment of the frontal lobes of the brain causes disinhibition (or something)

Oh, and I grew up in the 70s and people were much nicer then. I blame Thatcher

HerBeatitude Asda on Wheels. I love that

I live in London and nearly everyone uses the buses. Perhaps that explains why I encountered rudeness from a wide range of people.

weegiemum I do indeed and you're right it is like someone took the entire population and aged them in some dastardly plot. It's taken me ages to get used to it but now I actually quite like it. I get told daily that I'm 'too young to remember that' or that something was 'before your time' - makes me feel like a young whippersnapper

makedoandmend do you live in Worthing? I only went there once, and everyone I saw was old. I mean everyone. It was a bit twilight zone, to be honest!

LOL

This is why I don't use buses. It's like ASDA on wheels.

I have often argued for Boudicca-type scythes on buggy wheels. Of course that might lead to blade proliferation when the old ladies put them on their shopping trollies too.

Blimey it must be the sea air but the OAPs here are, by and large, lovely. Usually happy to entertain my lo while I stare bleakly out the window ride happily on the bus. Maybe it's because there are so many of them.

(will probably encounter the most miserable old git tomorrow now I've said that )

You could also have an Ultimate Fighting version where there are no rules!

Well buggies are big these days. You can't deny it. And they do take up a hell of a lot of room.

And her age was irrelevant to her rudeness btw.

I was berated by an old lady on the bus the other day, no idea why, something about taking up 2 seats(there were 3 of us) and and having no respect for elders, meaning that she had to sit "over there" . Think she might have been a bit batty because I still can't figure out what we did wrong lol, the bus was half empty, we weren't sitting in the disabled area, she had 2 seats to herself. God knows. Theres lots of racist old people chuntering away on buses too, complaining about the foreigners daring to come over here and drive our buses lol.

YANBU, the worst are the "I'd give em a slap" brigade, wanders away muttering.

pmsl screamingabdab

JoesMum

Oh yes, ramming, use of walking sticks, bag swinging, crowding across the pavement in pairs carrying hot coffee, boring to death by discussing Chuch schools, and the killer blow, theatrical tantrumming - all perfectly legal moves.

Sorry, 'from someone' not 'for someone'. I didn't go around abusing the residents!!

Sorry again screamingabdab. Not sceamingabdad or sreamingabdab.

When I visited my grandad in an old peoples home I was guaranteed a dose of the rudes for someone even if he was on best behaviour. Apparently it is one of the first signs of dementia to not be able to 'screen' your comments. Although I wonder if we are all just much more polite than back in the day? Maybe in the 40's everyone just barked whatever they fancied at each other and they all just took it? Certainly my mum tells me in the 70's people were much more likely to comment at strangers over their clothes \ hair etc. We're just a more accepting, liberal society these days.

I got on a bus yesterday with 10 month old in pushchair and 2 year old. I put the 2 yr old on a seat, the only pair of seats together, that was for those who have greater need and that incidentally had a picture of a pushchair next to it, whilst I put the pushchair in an available space further up. As I went back to 2 year old an older lady, but not infirm, was barging past daughter to get to the spare seat. I said, very politely that I had hoped to sit next to my daughter. She wouldn't look me in the eye but grumbled loudly in a passive-aggressive way, for some time, about the seat being for old people only, which is categorically not what it said.

How very dare she!

lol ridley - given the ethnic makeup of Peckham, I have visions of that old lady exhausting herself by having to gurn, roll her eyes etc on a constant basis every time she gets on the bus...

sorry screamingabdad. Just got bit over excited.

Now what would the rules be sreamingabdab?

No eye-gouging, below the waist... what about the use of tartan trolley bags?

pmsl!

I did once queue to get on a bus and there was a fairly young lad in a wheelchair in front of me, so I got DS out of the buggy and folded it up without much thought.

The lad only then, got out of his chair, folded it up and walked on!

Now I appriciate, some people use wheelchairs who can walk sometimes, or a little way, but he could have said he was going to do that before I got DS out and folded the buggy.

lol screamingabdab

Buggy/Old person face-off. Now THAT I'd like to see on Sky Sports .....

I think that the buggy-old person face-off can be quite well explained by the fact that , by and large, the two groups are travelling at the same times of day. Imagine if you tried to travel in rush-hour .....

Overmydeadbody Just to say, quite a number of your residents would have some form of dementia, which does affect the parts of the brain which stop you from saying what's on your mind. Therfore causes rudeness .

Not ALL mind you. That kind of work is very hard, I know

Good for you,Joesmummy, I have to say I do find a lot of older people rude, but saying that since my mother became a 2nd class person wheelchair user I have come across some right bitches with prams too, who do not like a wheelchair in "their" space.

I agree with bags on seats though, and I have been known to remove them and sit down (mostly when PMT)

Dragonfly.

That is disgusting.

weegiemum.

Now I'm wondering if it would be terribly rude to reply with "aren't you old enough to have learnt to be polite" when confronted with "isn't that child old enough..." comments. Regarless of age of rude person?

I hate using buses, theres always seems to be someone just itching to make a comment about the fact that you have a buggy and yes funnily enough it is normally an elderly person,
but last week I was waiting to catch a bus with my 2 DC one in a buggy and one walking when a lady that I know from mums and tots joined the queue, we got talking and I said if the bus is full i'll fold my buggy down so you can get on (she also had her 2 DC with her the youngest being 5wks).

Anyway the bus arrived and was quite full so I folded my buggy and let my friend get on infront of me, however when she got onto the bus the driver looked down his nose at her and said you'll have to fold it down and nodded toward the buggy, we both looked down the bus and there was room for her with the buggy as it was so she said i'm not folding it down my baby is asleep and there's room anyway, she paid the driver and as she turned to walk down the bus the driver called her a f**king bitch under his breath,

She asked for his name and said she was going to report him. I don't know what happened though I haven't seen her since.

The rudest, most racist old lady in the WORLD got on our bus the other day heading for Peckham

I just sort of clocked her in my peripheral vision sighing loudly when an African mum and buggy got on. I thought nuffink of it, till a muslim woman got on wearing a scarf-nowhere NEAR the old lady, and she rolled her eyes all theatrically, like. Then more and more ethnic minority people got on, and each time she got more and more EXTREME eg jerking her head back, shouting "CUH" etc etc. By the time we started going past the Halal butchers and fish shops on Rye Lane she had a hanky over her face and was grooooaning v audibly.I thought she might die of rage

At work we were always taught to Challenge Racism, but in this case...I just hopped meekly off the bus without saying a dicky bird-case she gave me a clump

I got on the bus with dd2 in her Maclaren Major buggy recently (its big, cos she is 5 but has a hip condition) and as I manouevered it into the space the older lady opposite said loudly to no-one in particular "you would think a child of that age could walk".

I was - though its not the first time I've had comments like that (had one at the school gate once as well!)

I almost went off on one, but restrained myself! I just said (in my best posh voice) "well my daughter has a degenerative hip condition and she is off her feet just now" and stuck my nose on the air.

Dd2 then tried to engage the witch woman in conversation and proceeded to educate her about it "I've got Perthes disease you know, it means I'm not allowed to walk or run or hop or skip ........ etc" and then regaled her with tales of her wobbly tooth!

In da ghetto!

Chillaxin, innit.

... except I have no idea what young people talk about nowadays

Right I shall don best Joyce Grenfell voice (thanks screamingabdab!) and take on the yoof too!

Will not have it be said that I discriminate

Precisely. You could almost say that you're volunteering. Well done you!

So I suppose I'm really performing a community service by engaging her in conversation?

I think, regardless of age, somepeople are miserable rude beings, and as they get older they get more vocal and less restrained in voicing their disaproval of others.

Just because they've been alive for longer than others doesn't give them the right to be rude to others.

Some of the rudest people I've ever encountered in my life where the patients in an old people's home I worked in.

Oh I tell you the worst for putting bags on seats are secondary school kids. Honestly they can't bear to have anyone they don't know sit next to them!

It's true JoesMummy! It's Baiting of the Frazzled Mother, a well known technique

VinoEsmeralda. That's a good one.

I used to ask when people but their bag on a seat, 'Is your bag tired?'. I now very rarely travel on the buss as rather cycle to avoid those annoying people

Why do italics never work for me on this site.

if old people are oppressed surely they are an oppressed MAJORITY rather than a MINORITY...

^Have some respect, when she was young maybe she walked ffing miles with her kids. Also after years of work maybe she had deserved having a free bus pass certainly after 60 odd she would have the right to free travel.^

Does that give anyone the right to be rude to some one for using a public service which they have paid for? I don't think so!

I was stood waiting for a friend in town 2 days ago, I have a buggy (the fold up, umberella type) and DS was stood next to me, leaning agianst the wall. It was quiet, being a tuesday afternoon, in a large, pedestrian area, with about 5 feet between me an the bus lane. No one else walking past. An elderly lady with a shopping trolley walked passed and said,

"You got enough room, girl?"

Seriously, there was room for 3 old bags and their shopping trolleys to walk past at once without rubbing shoulders!

I said "I'm sorry, what did you say?" but (shocking) I got no reply!

WHY! Really, why?

Aah, now I've read screamingabdad and SerendipitousHarlot's comments it has just occured to me that perhaps old dear was baiting me and I fell into her trap!

I may have inadvertantly made her day

<JoesMummy is now climbing down from her high horse>

<climbs off high horse and empties bees from bonnet>

Here is a link to the Help the Aged website

www.helptheaged.org.uk/en-gb/Campaigns/

For anyone who is interested in Older People and their wellbeing.

Lupusina yes, I believe that is true

ElenorRigby I will give respect to those who deserve it. She hasn't shown it so IMO she does not deserve my respect. That said I wasn't rude to her, just pulled her up on her nasty comment.

Respect is earnt, not a right. Although I do think until you have evidence to the contrary you should be respectful to people.

Yes she is travelling for free. That does not entitle her to be rude/take up two seats. Incidentally my (paid for) ticket does not either.

no expat, they are an oppressed majority.

"How many of these nasty old crones charming old dears have bought theirs?"
Have some respect, when she was young maybe she walked ffing miles with her kids. Also after years of work maybe she had deserved having a free bus pass certainly after 60 odd she would have the right to free travel.

Exactly screamingabdab I can't wait. I kind of love their rudeness in a way, it makes me laugh that they really don't. give. a. fuck.

Bring it on

Serendip Yes, but they have earned the right to be rude .

Personally, having spent so much time trying to be nice, and fair and reasonable, I'm going to bloody well let rip when I am in my 80s

Oh come on, old people can be dreadfully rude And I like them!

wen ds2 was 18months old he was having a tantrum on the bus ,and one old lady said to me if that was my dc in my day id of smacked they legs ,so i said oh yes smack him on the bus ,dont think so and mind your own ,also we had a new pram once and dh was having trouble taking it of the bus ,as it was not folded down right and said in a loud voice ,get the bloody pram down we want to get off ,i cant say what my dh said ,also you get rude people everywhere ,in supermarkets etc ,

JoesMummy I am RUBBISH at retorts, so I will be watching with interest .....

What always springs to my mind is (said in a Joyce Grenfell voice) "If you haven't got anything nice to say, don't say anything at all"

That would really work in London

Ok, didn't want to do the old bashing so perhaps I'll adopt Junglist's term "rudes"

If a rude (whether old, young, pushing a buggy, whatever) makes a loud offensive comment about someone else, what is the best retort you've used/wished you'd said?

there are rude people everywhere.

And tbh I find peopel with buggies equally objectionable as they seem to have a sense of entitlement.

awas?? was

Roobie - She was addressing the bus, so I thought she awas fair game. I mentioned the bag as didn't want to drip feed. I think it's a bit anti social but there's always the chance it was just thoughtlessness. Her comment however, was deliberate.

I don't know if it matters that she is old - think I would've said something if younger too.

I am not a nasty person and don't like to discriminate against any groups of people but have to honestly say the most rudeness I have experienced on public transport has been perpetrated by women of 60 plus.

expat OK, that's a bit emotional. But they don't get a brilliant deal when it comes to equal rights, and general attitudes towards ageing and older people are quite bad.

I was once in a shop with DS1 in a pram. It was a cookware/homeware shop with displays with pans,glasses, crockery etc. After I was served and leaving the shop assistant said quite clearly "I hate it when they come in here with their prams." !!! I so regret not doubling back and saying "I'm sorry, did you actually just say what I think you said?"

old people aren't oppressed minorities.

If all she did was make a loud snide comment to herself then tbh why bother entering into a confrontation?
I agree with the bag thing though .... was this what you were in fact giving her the verbals over?

"People like that"

ABetaDad.

I would like to see you sitting on an anti social persons shopping!

<ducks>

My point being: Is it relevant that the person is old ?

Is it not enough to merely say that they are rude ?

yanbu ,my ds2 got a major elite ,and they always tutt and say ooh he looks big enough to walk etc ,hes god gdd/sn and cant walk very much ,i never get the bus after 9.30 as they all get the bus then as its free i go later in the morning ,, but one old lady offerd me her seat one ,some are ok .some are so rude and think they have a right to the bus,and they push in and they moan about the young ones

you meet narky people everywhere. I had to get someone to move their shopping so I could park dd's wheelchair in the space and she sneerily said 'poeple like that should be out, in my day they were kept in homes'
She got several pieces of my mind. Over the course of the journey. As I thought of new things to say.

I don't get this thing about buggies apparently being enormous nowadays - I mean, compared to when? My mum had the most enormous Silver Cross pram for me and my brother. It was so huge it used to block the entire pavement when she left it outside shops (with me and my brother in it - oh how things have changed ...).

I have come across some really rude and intolerant black/gay/disabled people. Shall I have a rant about it ?

Oh, sorry, they are oppressed minorities who don't have access to equal rights.

I said "Perhaps it's too hot to walk?" And something along lines of ladies with prams having just as much right to use the bus as she does.

No 4 letter tirade. This is the suburbs(!) Think she was a bit shocked though. She looked a bit uncomfortable, esp as everyone around us carefully studied the floor.

Did think later us women with our massive buggies have at least bought our tickets. How many of these nasty old crones charming old dears have bought theirs?

you should have asked her why she didnt just walk!! rude bitch, old or not, YANBU.

I have no problem with her having a shopping trolley ...just her disapproval of mums with big buggys ..

Rudes is a word I made up by the way

, meant to say old people use their trolleys to help them to walk and balance

I dunno ABetaDad, I have come across some really intolerant rude miserable old men as well

choice example being the one who saw my ds2's birthmark and said "he looks like he's been hit by a train"

How did she react? Normally people don't answer back to rudes and that's why they think they can get away with it. Was she shocked?

random Buggy-pushers have as much right to use the bus as anyone, but lots of old people use their buggies to help them to walk and keep their balance.

YES and I have.

I have completley had it with snotty old gits on buses. I am afraid to say it is women as well in particular. The bag on the seat next to them to stop my DSs sitting down is favourite trick but a 12 stone bloke treatening to sit on their bag soon shifts them.

Frankly, I think the attitude some old people have is "I have a bus pass so I am entitled and you are not".

Gggrrrrr!

Good for you! Not sure I would have had the nerve to say anything but I certainly would have thought it!

Some people seem to think only others need to be considerate and that it doesn't apply to them, but I bet she would have moaned if you had left your bags in her way!

(I assume you weren't too rude ie you went easy on the swearing???)

Yes, what did you say ?

Two wrongs don't make a right, you know

Oh, and I predict this thread will turn into a nasty tirade against old people.

Not that I'm saying that is what you intend, JoesMummy

I find buses seem to attract the nastiest, rudest type of people, that includes most of the drivers around here too! So glad I passed my driving test a couple of weeks ago and wont have to use them so much anymore! Good for you for sticking up for your friend, not sure if I would have had the bottle to have done it myself.

There was an old woman on my bus with a huge shopping trolley moaning that buggys were so big these days

YANBU

depends what your piece of mind was ....

if it was a four letter tirade then am not sure

YANBU, ignorant bitch

what did you say to her?

I was travelling on the bus today to meet up with some other mummies.

There were 3 buggies already on the bus when I spotted a lady with a pram trying to get on (I realised later it was actually a friend of mine - I'm a bit short-sighted!). The driver told her it was full so she thanked him and joined the back of the queue to wait for the next one.

The horrible old cow old lady sitting in front of me loudly said "I don't know why they can't just walk".

Well, I was not having that! Her comment was down right rude, thoughtless and unneccessary. So I gave her a piece of my mind!

I should add that when I got on the bus carrying DS in a sling and carrying 2 bags she hadn't moved her bag so I could sit down, despite it being a seat for "those less able to stand". (Perhaps I am being unreasonable there and her bag needed the seat more than woman carrying 3mo child and shopping??!)

I don't normally do this kind of thing but I just lost it. AIBU? Would you do the same?