To think that parents should have a say in how often religious leaders lead assembly in a community school

[ReallyTired]

I naively thought I had chosen a community school. Yet my daughter is having an assembly once a week with a church of england vicar. I am not an atheist and I really do not want to withdraw her from RE and assemblies, but I feel once a week is excessive for a community school. You might want to ask why I object to a vicar coming every week when I attend church, but his take on theology is different from mine. I want to be in complete control of my daughter's religious upbringing/ indoctrination.

I feel angry by the sly way it has been done. I know that there is a legal requirement for christian worship, but weekly visits is indocrination. Its more often than we go to a different church. My daughter's school is one third muslim and they are essentially having a christian religious service once a week. The new head never told anyone that she was going have the vicar every week. Why does the govenment do nothing about "Christian" trojan horses? My daughter's school is more religious than any of the church schools I attended.

I want schools to be clear in their prospectus how much religion there is. I feel its wrong that a new head can unilaterally make a community school more religious than a church school without telling/ consulting the parents. I feel its an abuse of power to make a community school ultra religious.

[Janethegirl]

Suggest a bit more detailed questions before you chose the school may have been an idea if you have such fixed views regarding religion in schools.
Fwiw both my dc attended a CofE primary with weekly involvement with the local vicar.

[FarFromAnyRoad]

Sly? Christian trojan horses? Indoctrination? Ultra religious? All this from a weekly visit?
Christ on a bike.

[MrsTerryPratchett]

The Christian Trojan Horse is enshrined in law. Unfortunately.

Personally I feel that there should be zero indoctrination in school. Just, you know, teaching facts and stuff. Old Skool, me.

[RockinHippy]

Have you spoken to the school, any staff, your daughter, or of the other children a regards the actual content of these assemblies ?!

I ask as we had something similar happen with my daughters old primary school & like you I wasntbest pleased about the idea of religious indoctrination of a form we don't hold with - I also wondered about the kids of other faiths such as the Moslems

Turned out there was actually nothing to be concerned about, the "Rev" Who came in was doing so very much as a community roll, there was no real religious angle to it at all, other than he worked at a local community church, it was more about pulling the community together, than it was religion or any kind of indoctrination-

My own DD was annoyed herself at first - she could be a bit militant in her veiws on fairness & anti religious indoctrination, even back then, but after the first assembly, she was fine with it & so was I after looking into it further

Maybe ask the school what it is all about first, or even ask if you can. Go along & see for yourself as you are uncomfortable with it :)

[Pico2]

I think it is fair comment if the religious ethos of a school is so dependent on the head. Janethegirl the OP refers to a new head. What are parents meant to do when the head teacher changes and brings in more outside religious content?

Our local school apparently allows each local vicar/pastor in once a term or once a half term. I'm sad that we live in an area with little religious diversity, so that these visitors are all different brands of Christian. I would prefer that DD's exposure to religion is all of the "some people believe" type.

[ilovesooty]

Pull her out of collective worship then.

[Littlefish]

" I want to be in complete control of my daughter's religious upbringing/ indoctrination."

Then you will need to withdraw her from all collective worship in the school, along with any Christmas performances, carol concerts, visits by other faith leaders, trips to places of worship etc.

[NormHonal]

I would echo what MrsTerryPratchett and Pico2 have already said.

Surely it is in the interests of all of us to let schools teach stuff like maths, science and literacy, for the furtherment of our species etc etc, and leave the religious stuff for extra-curricular/weekend time.

My DCs also get a far more religious education in their "community" primary school than I ever did in my CofE schools - which were by-default the only option in my town at the time.

[mandy214]

Why is an assembly 'indoctrination'? And unless you're going to monitor everything she reads, watches, who she talks to, you cannot be in control of her whole religious upbringing. And whilst an assembly might be led by a vicar, there might be lessons etc about other faiths.

[Janethegirl]

pico2 if the new head had sufficient parent protest, the school governors could insist the process was reversed. If that didn't produce a satisfactory outcome, then the option would be either to remove my child from any religious session or move school.

[DisappointedOne]

Currently in talks with my 4 year old'sschool about this. Even the head didn't know how much religious indoctrination the
Nursery children are being subjected to by their teacher. It's a non-faith community school. I wish a weekly assembly was all I had to deal with!

State schools should be completely secular. Teach belief systems in lessons as you do anything else. I don't want my child being forced to pray 3 times a day! It's unacceptable that there's no secular option for parents beyond homeschooling.

[PfftTheMagicDraco]

count yourself lucky, we get at least 2 brainwashing assemblies a week.

[MrsTerryPratchett]

It's unacceptable that there's no secular option for parents beyond homeschooling. Couldn't agree more.

[Pico2]

To be fair to teachers, every assembly led by a local vicar is one less for them to prepare - and they can use their time for planning, marking etc. It must be rather tempting to let anyone indoctrinate a couple of hundred children for 15 minutes to get a bit of time back for teaching staff.

[ReallyTired]

I don't mind the occassional religious visitor, but the vicar every week. Its utterly excessive.

I feel that visitors from different religions would be really positive. I am happy for my daughter to read anything on religion she likes and make up her own mind. At least she could choose what she could read. She has no choice in attending assembly with the vicar.

I don't mind the priest come once a term, but weekly is over the top.

"
Then you will need to withdraw her from all collective worship in the school, along with any Christmas performances, carol concerts, visits by other faith leaders, trips to places of worship etc."

I don't mind any of those things. I know that they are going to happen and parents have plenty of notice if they want to raise an objection. I would have a fit if my daughter was taken to a mosque every week for Friday prayers without my knowledge. (I would be pleased for dd to have the opportunity to visit a mosque as an educational visit to learn about Islam.)

What I object to is the sly way that new head can radically change the religious ethos of a community school without telling anyone. I feel that schools should be open and honest quite how religous they are so that parents can make an informed decision.

[MrsTerryPratchett]

Rather like letting DD watch crap on Netflix so the house doesn't fall down Pico. A necessary evil? Couldn't they just get Firefighters or Health and Safety inspectors or something in? Something cool and irreligious.

[Pantone363]

I've said it before and I'll say it again, just withdraw them.

It starts a wonderful snowball effect, DC's school now has 13 kids withdrawn. A mix of muslim, atheist, JW and Jewish. Last week when the vicar came in they did clay modelling for 30 minutes. The week before they were allowed to play out on the trim trail.

All the other kids stuck in assembly are jealous of them!

[Pantone363]

Agree MrsTerry

Local Authors
Librarians
Am dram clubs
Local sports people
Police/Firefighters/First Aid people
Community leaders
PCSO's

Any of the above would be great

[ReallyTired]

Pico2
I think you are entirely right about your point of not having to prepare. Even if a head decides to have a vicar doing an assembly every week the parents should be told before hand so that they can choose to opt out.

Maybe I should ask the head if there can be weekly visits from a humanist to give a bit of balance. I am not sure where I would find a humanist with enough time though.

[Pantone363]

Also I probably wouldn't withdraw if there was a mix of religions being brought in, get the jews in, get the muslims in, get the bloody local buddha in.

But CofE EVERY WEEK.....who is also the head teachers vicar......

[MrsTerryPratchett]

And a lot of religions don't evangelise so the local Rabbi probably isn't going to go in for a lot of brainwashing.

I'm now in a country with actual separation of Church and State so I don't have to go through this bollocks.

I really can't think of any good reason almost every child in the UK is subject to Christian worship in schools.

[DreamingofSummer]

Why do I find the words mountain and molehill coming to mind?

[MrsTerryPratchett]

Why do I find the words mountain and molehill coming to mind? Great, so you'd be perfectly happy with a representative of a religion not your own, an Imam or Swami coming in every week to lead worship with your child?