to wonder how pensioners exist on 113 a week?

[mls3]

Just heard this on the radio, can't believe it is so slow.

Aibu to think it should be double? I earn more than double this and in 30 years time when I'm 66 not sure I could exist on 113.

[VivaLeBeaver]

Surely in a month half of this would be swallowed by council tax, heating, water. I guess its why you hear of old people freezing to death in the winter.

[velocity1]

£113 is the basic pension rate, if you have no other pension it is topped up with Pension Credits. It's still low, but it's more than a single person on JSA or Income Support gets

[jammytoast]

They get pension credit, housing benefit and winter fuel allowance.

It is a shit amount, absolutely, but state benefits are a shit amount no matter what age you are.

Young people can go out to work yes, but pensioners have had a working lifetime to prepare for retirement, and while I do feel sympathy for anyone struggling to eat or heat their home, I don't feel extra sympathy because they are a pensioner. If that makes sense.

And don't get me started on the MILLIONs of pounds of Winter Fuel Allowance being paid to pensioners living in Spain, Cyprus and Portugal!!

[mls3]

But JSA is low so that people go to work. If you've spent your whole life working hard then by the time you are sixty I'd expect a decent amount to be paid, not just a bit higher than JSA!

[Babyroobs]

They get pension credit, housing benefit if renting etc.

[SurelyYoureJokingMrFeynman]

That's more than Incapacity Benefit/ESA.

Viva, until very recently there was substantial help with Council Tax (almost 100% if income was low enough). But that help's been reduced in most areas now due to the cuts.

[jammytoast]

And if you have spent your whole life working then why wouldn't you be responsible and pay into a pension? Even a min wage worker could afford to put something away each month and it would be a substantial amount by the time they retire.

And JSA is low because its for people looking for work, but disability benefits aren't any higher, and they are for people who cannot work and pay into a pension. They have no choice. So pensioners are still pretty far down the list of the worst off.

[mls3]

Sorry but I'm way above min wage and I can't afford to save anything, rent and bills swallow up 70% of my wages and I like to use the rest to eat and maybe do something nice once a week!

[angelos02]

Even a min wage worker could afford to put something away each month and it would be a substantial amount by the time they retire

What? Many people in work are struggling to put food on the table. I am relatively well off but I still have an understanding of how hard it is for millions of people to live day to day never mind having money to put aside.

[Charitybelle]

It is sad, and I feel sorry for pensioners who have no other income. This is why I'm so keen on home ownership and to get my mortgage paid off. If you take housing costs out of the equation when you're retired, it might be possible to live on state pension/benefits. Even better if you can sell your house/flat and cash in your equity to downsize. I completely appreciate due to the state of the housing market this isn't possible for everyone, but I know so many people who are making no plans at all for their retirement and I can't understand why. The state pension will prob be even lower by the time I retire, in approx 30 years ish!

[MaryWestmacott]

If you've paid in to the system with NI contributions, then you get the additional state pension on top of that, which is up to £163 a week. So actually, someone who's 'worked hard all their life' and paid into the system, would be entitled to £274 a week. Or £1187.33 a month. Plus winter fuel allowance, plus any private/work based pension.

Our family bills + food for a family of 4, discounting mortgage are approximately £1,100 a month.

The pensioners who are 'poor' are those who have chosen to opt out paying SERPs (what the second state pension used to be called, reducing their NI contributions) or those who didn't work, but weren't in reciept of benefits that paid their NI for them (child benefit until your youngest was 12, carers allowance and I believe some others pay your NI for you), and then on top of that haven't made private provision.

A lot of people have cashed out their pensions, or haven't paid in over their working lives. A lot of woman get caught out having just been SAHMs then housewives when their DCs left home but without htinking it would have a knock on effect to their pension entitlement.

The basic state pension is just a minimum safety net, for those who have contributed nothing. It's interesting, it's the only benefit that the amount you get does depend on how much you've paid in to the system. I quite like that.

[gunnsgirl]

To whoever thinks anyone working on minimum wage can afford to put something away each month - three words. Please get real.

[ArabellaTarantella]

And if you have spent your whole life working then why wouldn't you be responsible and pay into a pension? said jammytoast

I DID pay into a pension for the 20 years I worked, then I went on to Carers Allowance because my child was born disabled. There is NO pension option with Carers Allowance.

[DaisyFlowerChain]

It is very low but more than JSA. It should be heavily linked to contributions as there's not much difference I believe between a state pension for somebody that has worked for fourth years and somebody who has worked few or no years.

The new workplace pension scheme means everyone has the option of a works pension, if they don't choose to participate then that's down to them.

[jammytoast]

My partner has a min wage job, I am a SAHM because my earning potential is also min wage which wouldn't cover childcare costs at the minute.

We manage to pay into his pension. So I am already "real" thank you. I am living the reality every day.

As for carers allowance, I should have specified that in my previous post about disability benefits. Carers allowance is a joke amount. Totally disgraceful. But if you paid into a pension for 20 years then you still have that pension.

[SurelyYoureJokingMrFeynman]

That's not quite true, MaryWestmacott. Access to both JSA and Incapacity Benefit/ESA depends on how much NI you've paid and even when you paid it.

These may work differently from pension NI restrictions, but how much IB/ESA you get absolutely depends on which NI category you fall in.

So if I had gone self-employed for a year when my health was between the "can work full-time" and "can't do much at all" levels, I would now have zero income, because my NI contributions wouldn't meet the criteria. (That was just luck: I couldn't foresee the disability benefits cuts.)

[Missunreasonable]

If you've spent your whole life working hard then by the time you are sixty I'd expect a decent amount to be paid, not just a bit higher than JSA!

Most people who have spent their whole lives working get additional state pension as well as the basic state pension or have contracted out and have a private pension.
I gave up work to be a full time carer (didn't have a choice) and I will have a crappy pension when I retire. Under the current rules I would have got additional state pension as well as basic state pension but the new idea is that everyone will get a flat rate of £140. Whilst I wouldn't have for much under the old rules I will probably get even less now and I don't think it's fair that people who have worked, been disabled or saved the govt a fortune through taking on unpaid caring roles will get the same pension as somebody who has spent their entire working age lives on JSA.

[Sickoffrozen]

Mary- the words up to are very relevant in that post! Very very few people get state pensions of that size as the additional state pension has been linked to earnings in the past. I work in finance and have only met two people in 20 years who have state pensions of that size.

Most older people come from a generation of having nothing and making do and this is how they survive.

If you think it is a problem now, wait another 30/40 years when the young generation of today start to retire and still want the lifestyle they have now on zero money.

The wealth gap will increase dramatically over the next 30 years or so.

[Missunreasonable]

Jammy you also no doubt have the benefit of being in receipt of top up benefits and no childcare costs, hence you probably have a higher disposable income than a single person earning minimum wage or a couple on low wages who have high childcare and housing costs.
Just because you manage to pay into a pension doesn't mean everyone can.
Do you pay into a pension for yourself as well as your husband?

[SoonToBeSix]

Mary you are wrong excluding private pensions a pensioner who has paid in or not receives the same amount. The pensioner who has paid in and receives full state pension will get less pension credits that a pensioner who hasn't paid in enough.

[ilovechristmas1]

thats not the true figure is it op

top up pension credit,housing benefit,ct,fuel allowance,tv lisence,perscriptions,no bedroom tax

add them up and then talk about the total,talking about the £113 is not a true representation at all

[ilovechristmas1]

That's not quite true, MaryWestmacott. Access to both JSA and Incapacity Benefit/ESA depends on how much NI you've paid and even when you paid it

not true

benefits are decided on your circumstances,eg if you havent paid enough NI you may still be able to claim income based ,ESA,JSA etc

[Random1999]

I can confirm the low amount is true my fil is on a state pension and before he was awarded DLA he wouldn't be able to afford any food except 1.50 10 packets of noodles in farmfoods, that was his weeks food. my partner was earning 760-800 a month and was having to give his father most of it so they could afford gas, electric, hot water, to pay the TV bill and put enough fuel in the shared car to allow him to work :(

[springlamb]

What's even sadder is that many widows opted to pay married women's contributions in the 70s and now find themselves on the basic pension.
My mum wised up to this and by 1980 was paying extra contributions into her own pension.
Sadly, MIL didn't, and was then talked into taking her small nursing pension as lump sum only which was promptly spent by FIL who then died, leaving MIL at the age of 61 living on a very small amount.
She's 77 now and I don't know how she exists on her monthly income, though she is still never seen without immaculate hair and lipstick and matching shoes and handbag!