ZOMBIE THREAD ALERT: This thread hasn't been posted on for a while.
To think my BIL is a shit and refuse to go to his wedding. Long - sorry!(48 Posts)
First post...would appreciate some opinions.
Brief history...I've been with DH for 12 years, and in that time, BIL has been with various women. He has 3 kids with 3 different women, and doesn't bother with any of them very much. Whenever he gets into a relationship, he disappears, throws himself into his girlfriend's family and for some reason doesn't bother with his own. On several occasions we haven't heard from him for months on end. It doesn't bother DH, he just says he's a grown man and let him get on with it , but I really feel sorry for MIL who is picked up and dropped, ignored for months at a time, and is generally treated badly by BIL, who's her middle child.
DH is the eldest. They all had a difficult upbringing, violent alcoholic father, mother was victim of DV, and eventually their father left when DH was 16. He had to step up and become 'the man of the house', left school and got a job, paid the bills and paid off his mum's debts etc etc. He has always taken the role of responsibility for his brother and sister, and they tend to look to him whenever the shit hits the fan. Since I met DH, MIL has always said BIL is jealous of him - and he's often been heard to refer to DH as 'golden balls' or similar.
When BIL's last relationship broke up, he came to DH for financial help. He had been left high and dry financially by his partner, who had an affair and then left him, taking their 2 year old son. They had been renting a house, in her name only. We talked about it, and we agreed eventually to buy a house and rent it to BIL, so he had somewhere to start again, and where his children could stay with him. It went as far as me viewing ten or twelve properties, talking to the bank etc. Then all of a sudden, BIL disappeared, didn't answer any calls and was uncontactable. After 6 weeks, he eventually called and said he had met another woman, and would be moving in with her instead. I was just glad we hadn't signed anything, and DH and I just moved on with our lives and thought no more of it.
We barely saw BIL for the next 2 years, just the occasional text message, birthday cards for the kids etc. Then out of nowhere, he called and asked if he and his girlfriend could come and speak to us. In a nutshell, they came and said BIL had got himself into £11.5k of debt, and had gone to one of these debt agencies who advertise on TV. He had to pay them £90, and they went through some legal process to get his debts written off for him. I think it's one step short of declaring bankruptcy. The consequence of this was that he could get no credit anywhere, and could not get a private rental property as he would not pass the credit checks. The tenancy on his girlfriend's house was coming to an end and they wanted to get somewhere together. They basically asked us to buy a house for them to live in, similar to what had been discussed previously with BIL. That would have been one conversation, but they followed it up by saying that they were short of money so wanted us to buy a property and rent it to them for no more than £300 per month. We explained that £300 would not even cover the mortgage we would have to take out, and we would actually be out of pocket, but it didn't seem to register. Their other suggestion was that we take out a mortgage because they couldn't get one, then sign the house over to them at the end for no profit! Talk about high risk - and probably illegal. The conversation was left by DH saying that he would have a think and would see what he could sort out to help BIL, but that it would have to make sense financially for us too, as we have four children to think about, and we want to be able to help them in years to come if they go to uni etc etc.
Yet again things changed, and BIL and his girlfriend were offered a council house, which they took. As soon as they moved in, they phoned and asked us for money to buy carpets and wallpaper "just a few hundred pounds". DH and I talked, and we just feel like they are taking a lend, and only ever bother with us when they want something. We have recently moved house ourselves, and are trying to renovate our house bit by bit. We haven't decorated or carpeted here yet, because we can't afford to do everything in one go, yet here is BIL putting his hand out looking for DH to foot the bill so they can immediately do their house up. I just think he's entitled and selfish. Helping him out when he was in need would have been one thing, and I know DH would never have seen him homeless or desperate, but to expect someone else to fork out for your Laura Ashley wallpaper so you can have it right now is just taking the piss. DH said no, and the next thing we heard, BIL was bad mouthing DH to the rest of the family, calling him a selfish twat, and saying he only thinks of himself. I just can't be bothered any more, and I feel sorry for DH that his brother only contacts him for money, and slags him off when he can't have it. I've made it clear I don't want any more to do with him. He is nasty to poor MIL (who has also 'lent' him money and never seen it again) and I know how he's hurt her over the years with his selfish behaviour.
BIL and DH are still in touch via text. DH is very placid and nothing bothers him. BIL has recently announced that he's getting married to this girl. He has asked his sister's daughter to be flower girl, but not our two girls, who have always loved him, and who he sees as much as his sister's child. It's just a snub to DH and to me, but the only ones who would be upset are my daughters, who would be heartbroken to see their cousin as flower girl, while they weren't included. I have told DH that I will not be going to the wedding, and that neither will our kids. My girls would be really upset at being left out, and I think BIL is an absolute tool for taking out his issues with us on two little girls. He is no closer to his sister's child than he is to our kids - it's a definite snub. MIL is furious and upset, and didn't want to tell me that our girls were being left out. I couldn't give a toss about the whole thing, if it wasn't for the way my kids are being treated. I've said to DH that he must do whatever he wants, and that I won't try to influence him either way, but that I won't go to the wedding or subject our girls to watching from the sidelines (they are 10 and 6). He isn't happy, and I know will try to get me to change my mind. I'm happy for DH to maintain whatever relationship he wants with his brother, but after slagging my husband off while asking him for money, I just don't want anything to do with BIL whatsoever. We haven't been invited to the wedding yet, but we will - they will want a wedding present after all.
YANBU I wouldn't go in your situation.
Message withdrawn at poster's request.
YANBU. And stick to your guns about not letting your DDs go, if they'd be hurt on the sidelines.
YANBU to not go and to not want anything to do with it, but YABU about the flowergirl thing if only because there is no law that says they must ask your DDs.
His behaviour towards you and your DH is a complete piss take though, and I totally agree that you are well within your rights to cut him off. People like this will just take take take and you are right stop giving him any help. Its because he thought he could always tap you for cash that he got into such a mess in the first place. The best thing your DH can do for his brother is make him stand on his own 2 feet.
Who will be paying for the wedding reception?
Maybe they won't invite you and DH, or invite you and ask you to pay for yourselves.
That really happened to my friend and her BIL.
They said they couldn't afford to invite even close family, but managed to pay a fortune for a honeymoon suite in a very expensive hotel.
Buy them a wedding present - something cheap in the sale for �5.00.
A wooden cut out word like LOVE.
Some people just are takers.
Yeah, I wouldn't bother either. The wedding may never even happen anyway.
I totally agree about the flower girl thing Bogeyface - there's no law at all that says who should be asked. It's just that when my kids ask why did uncle knobhead choose X and not us, I wouldn't be able to answer
without swearing. The 3 little girls are all equally close to him, and all play together a lot. I'm not saying they have to be asked, I'm just saying I won't put them in the middle of adult issues, when I know they would be hurt and upset.
I think you are looking at this from the point of view that this marriage probably won't last long so it will be heartache for your little girls for no reason.
Is there a way to put it to them that they wouldn't be upset? For example you could say that they could only have one little girl bridesmaid from this side of the family and they didn't think if fair to pick just one sister so decided on their cousin. However of course their uncle loves them very much and it will be a special fun day for them too. They will get to pick out new party dresses and you can have their hair done too if they like that sort of thing and you can get them special presents to open on the day (maybe a special necklace or hair peice).
But you have to wait for your DH to come to that decision himself. Mine did, but he has never been happy to lend money - he always expects to get stiffed.
BIL has asked over the years.. threat of redundancy could we give him £20K to tide him over? Couldn't extend mortgage again could he have £5K for holiday... and on. Yes we had the money, we sold a flat and were renting, so he knew there was some money somewhere, but we had no intention of giving it away and not to a rude, aggressive piss artist with an entitlement as big as an elephant (and a wife who chooses not to work... no kids, 2 dogs and she works 2 days a week).
He sounds like my brother, only ever bothers when he needs something.
I'd refuse to go too!
Sounds similar Nomama. BIL's girlfriend lives on benefits and they didn't actually want to even declare that he was living with her because she would lose ££. He didn't pay child support for years, and now that he has to, lies about his income to try to reduce his payments. DH works away, and I think they smell money, even though we're not loaded by any means. It pisses me off that people can just expect others to give them money, for luxuries and things that are wants rather than needs.
Yanbu and your dh has
to wake up and smell the coffee, that his brother sees him as a money bank. He sounds bloody awful and I would not subject my children to that.
I can't believe that you even give BiL the time to ask you for cash!!!
I'd be going NC and telling him to grow up get a job and fuck off.
He's doing your DDs a favour by leaving them out of his wedding and his shitty life.
Yanbu. If your dh keeps saying no to bils requests then eventually theyll stop coming. Its unfortunate that your dh cant see bil for what he is. A user.
Surprised you haven't been asked to fund the wedding tbh.
BIL is a cock and quite frankly I wouldn't entertain any discussion about lending/giving him anything - you are just enabling his needy and shitty behaviour.
He is behaving like a child with your DH as the father. The dynamic needs to change - starting with your DH treating him like a grown man and telling him to sort his life out and not a needy whiny kid who throws a strop when denied his pocket money.
Thank you everyone for the comments. I would love to just tell him to fuck right off. And one day I might just do that! Until then, I would prefer to just have absolutely no contact with him at all, and to keep well away from his shitty wedding. They announced their nuptials literally a couple of weeks after asking us for hundreds of pounds because they were too skint to buy wallpaper! So how the hell do they intend to pay for the wedding? Either they are going to need to borrow money from somewhere to pay for the damn thing, or they were trying to have our eyes out a few weeks ago. They will definitely invite us - I wasn't joking when I said they will want a wedding present (I expect they will be asking for money, and will expect a healthy donation from DH). There's no way I can go. I just can't think of anything worse. Even before they announced the wedding, I'd made my mind up to wash my hands of him - after hearing the way he spoke about my husband, who's done nothing but help the little shit out for years on end.
There's no way I would fork out for dresses etc for my girls and then cover for BIL by making up a story, as suggested above. I know they would be hurt by him leaving them out, he's an arsehole, and they don't deserve to be subjected to that AT ALL. We're all best out of it. DH can do what he likes, but I will stand my ground, and I've told him, we aren't giving him another penny. Ever.
You know what? I'm walking against the tide here but seems to me your DH is saddled with a ghastly DB already, so don't go making things worse and adding to the family troubles you both have to put up with.
Your DH should go to the wedding, and I think your DDs should too - it can't be the only time they get to go a wedding where they're not bridesmaids, they'll enjoy it anyway, partic if you get them something nice(r) to wear. Don't pass the issues of resentment and misery through to another generation - that's really important.
The fact is you've all been lumbered with a grim relative - don't use it to add fuel to the fire of trouble and discontent. Rise above it. Do the wedding, smile politely, and avoid DB as much as possible.
Wow that was harsh. I said I agreed with you and I said that I could understand why you'd not want to go. I offered one possible way you might be able to handle it if you did decide to go. There's no way I deserved that response. Do you always talk to people like that who are just trying to be helpful?
But isn't the whole point Bustarhymes that we DON'T have to put up with these sort of family troubles? Why should we? I would feel like a hypocrite, smiling and making polite conversation with people who have openly slagged us off. I just feel like they should get on with their lives, with people they want to spend time with, and we should do likewise. There are some horrendous people in my family too, and I've always been clear with DH that I don't expect him to put up with them, as they're not his problem. I hate fake happy families shit. I can't do it.
What was harsh? Saying that I don't want to make up stories? I also said thank you everyone for the comments. People won't always agree, thanks for the suggestion, but it's just not something I feel would be right. Sorry if I offended you, I really didn't mean to.
And no, I seriously try not to be rude to people who are trying to help, and to people in general. I've never been rude to my BIL either. Putting things across in writing can be really hard.
OK then. It came across as harsh to me because of the way you responded to my idea. Like I was being way out of order and telling you to lie. I didn't see it as a lie at all. If your BiL was a reasonable person that is. He hasn't said. You just make an assumption. What you never tell your kids things that aren't true but make them feel good? Santa and the Tooth Fairy don't exist? You never say something is your favourite just because it is theirs and they'd be upset if you didn't?
As for the dresses idea I didn't see that as being you spending your own money for your rubbish BiL but if you went to the wedding it would be doing something fun with and for your daughters.
It seems like you are wrapped up in what a shit your BiL is and how you feel about that.
All I was trying to say is that you could look at the stuff you could enjoy for you and your family if you decide to go to the wedding for the sake of family etc.
You sound very very angry at this couple and it sounds like you can't switch any of that anger off. So I don't even know why you are asking. Don't go.
I think you've hit on something accurate there NynaevesSister. I do feel like I'm really just too cross with them to do anything other than avoid them. Of course I do all the usual Santa and tooth fairy fibs for my children, but I don't want to say anything to cover for BIL's decisions - and you're right, it's because I'm angry with him. I've had years of talking to my tearful MIL because of the way he behaves, he's been horrible to her over and over. When his last relationship broke down, it was me who spent hours sitting with him, talking, listening, I took him to see a Solicitor several times (he doesn't drive and wanted support), I took him to CAB and sat for hours waiting and talking with the advisor. I took my car and moved all his possessions when he had to leave his ex's house...I guess I just feel crapped on, when I was the only person to always be there for him when he was having hard times. You're absolutely right that my own anger may be clouding the way I see things. Once again I'm sorry for being sharp.
I personally would not go, and I font think I would want my children subjected to that, he sounds like poison.
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