To want to keep my UK passport if Scotland votes YES in the 2014 referendum?

(968 Posts)
SittingBull1 Sat 16-Nov-13 19:50:44

If the majority of people actually voting votes YES in the 2014 referendum, Scotland will leave the UK. As Scots living in Scotland, will my family and I lose our UK passports? Along with a very large number of NO voters, my family and I will want to retain our UK passports, and I'm sure that a huge percentage of the non-voters will also want to keep theirs. I think that the UK government should offer to allow Scots living in Scotland to retain their UK passports. Is that unreasonable?

AuntieStella Sat 16-Nov-13 19:53:10

It'll be up to UK - which if 'yes' vote will be a foreign country - to decide whether nationals of another country can keep UK citizenship by descent. At present, I think you generally can, for two generations.

LessMissAbs Sat 16-Nov-13 19:53:37

Somewhat convoluted, but you want dual nationality? YABU. Scotland either goes ahead and becomes independent and deals with all the consequences, negative or not, or stays part of the UK

BlackbeltinBS Sat 16-Nov-13 19:58:26

That's a bit harsh LittleMissAbs - the OP has said she'd vote no!

YANBU - I reckon the UK Govt will allow dual nationality. However I also reckon they'll be slow announcing it in case people think they can have their cake and eat it.

WidowWadman Sat 16-Nov-13 20:04:38

I wonder what would happen to naturalised UK citizens who are resident in Scotland? Would they be treated differently to Scottish born ones? And what about those who are Scottish born, but not live there?

Sounds like an administrative headache

LessMissAbs Sat 16-Nov-13 20:09:32

Its not meant to be harsh Blackbelt though - isn't that what will simply happen? If a country stops being part of the UK and becomes independent, all sorts of things will change and affect people even though they voted no. Its a huge change. In fact, they will be living in a different country entirely even though if they voted "no" they won't want to be.

pinkr Sat 16-Nov-13 20:14:52

Dh is English so I'd be hoping to be able to remain a british citizen and our dd would have dual nationality.
The whole independence thing is am administrative nightmare...the costs alone are frightening. How much to produce a new currency for example?
The worrying thing is it'll attract numbskulls who never vote but who have a misguided sense of freedom...whatever that means. These people will bankrupt and ruin this country. I'm proud to be Scottish, I am Scottish but equally the union is a great thing and no sense of historical wrong doing should impact on the lives of the present.

AuntieStella Sat 16-Nov-13 20:15:50

I suspect therewon't be anything that can be done other than allow all residents of Scotland, who were previously UK citizens to choose whether they remain UK, take up, Scottish nationality or have dual nationality. Those outside Scotland who want to claim Scottish nationality will require a mechanism to claim it. And of course Scotland will need to start administering is own passport and identity service.

DifferenceEngine Sat 16-Nov-13 20:16:18

I wonder about the defence implications.... Given that we are a fairly easily defensible island.

How will that work, if one country gets attacked, can the other just sit and watch..

I hope Scotland votes no because the SNP are twerps and are at best deluding themselves about the legal situation re an independent Scotland and the EU, NATO, currency and other matters too. Still, I imagine that were Scotland to become independent, citizens of the leftover UK would probably have residency and work rights just as UK and Ireland citizens already have in each other's countries.

ItsAllGoingToBeFine Sat 16-Nov-13 20:19:35

There have been suggestions that it might be like in NI where I think you can hold an Irish and/or a UK passport.

Living in Scotland in the event of a yes vote does not mean you would instantly be stripped of UK/EU citizenship.

ItsAllGoingToBeFine Sat 16-Nov-13 20:22:28

How will that work, if one country gets attacked, can the other just sit and watch

There would be agreements in place like there were between other countries. An independent scotkand would probably be more focused on protecting the perimeter, rather than trying to project power.

AuntieStella Sat 16-Nov-13 20:22:57

It's not completely clear if Scotland, as a new country, will none able to piggyback on Uk and remain a member of EU, or if it would have to reapply (that's up to EU to decide).

If Scotland is permitted to carry on seamlessly as EU country, then rights to reside and work continue. But cross-border students University would be considered as EU not foreign students and must be charged same rate as home students. Expect Scotland's tuition fees to rise, or huge influx of English undergraduates.

JollySeriousGiant Sat 16-Nov-13 20:24:42

Why do you want to keep a UK passport? Are there benefits that a Scottish passport wouldn't have?

YoureBeingASillyBilly Sat 16-Nov-13 20:25:29

I don't see why they couldn't have what we have here in NI. I can have both UK and irish passports or either or neither. why couldn't Scotland have the same options?

ItsAllGoingToBeFine Sat 16-Nov-13 20:27:14

I hope Scotland votes no because the SNP are twerps and are at best deluding themselves about the legal situation re an independent Scotland and the EU, NATO, currency and other matters too

Sources please as I'm sure I can find expert I opinions who disagree. With all the arguing backwards and forwards it would seem that actually nothing would change all that much.

I guess it comes down to whether you prefer the Yes campaigns lots of positives that would come out of independence, or the no campaign s list of negatives.

It is kind of telling that the no campaign can't come up with any positive reasons to stay in the Union.

AlwaysAsleep Sat 16-Nov-13 20:33:20

You might be offered dual nationality?

SittingBull1 Sat 16-Nov-13 20:36:45

Thanks for those points. I'm inclined to think that AuntieStella might be right. It is not clear that a democratic decision by Scotland to leave the UK automatically removes British (let's use 'British' and 'UK' interchangeably here) citizenship from an individual who was born a British citizen or has otherwise acquired citizenship since birth, regardless of where they live. Am I right in thinking that British citizenship and the right to a British passport go hand-in-hand?

My husband is adamant that no election or referendum result can remove his British citizenship and he will go to court to prove it if necessary.

I can't be bothered citing 50 sources, so I will merely comment that the Government took legal advice on the issues re the EU, and published it.

Alex Salmond, having previously claimed to have taken legal advice as well, was forced to admit that he hadn't after refusing to disclose the advice. The SNP then trotted out the non-legal view of a retired diplomat and retreated into claims that the legal advice held by the Government was biased anyway. Lucky for them that the lawyer concerned hasn't decided to sue for libel.

MyMILisfromHELL Sat 16-Nov-13 20:40:19

What about Scots living in England or Wales that don't vote or vote no?

It's highly unlikely they will be true independence anyway.

Certainly not to start with. The yes camp, having realised they are up against it, have been quick to claim that nothing will change, which is ironic because that was what they said they wanted. But over time...

ItsAllGoingToBeFine Sat 16-Nov-13 20:43:10

"Toad" can you link to where the legal advice Westminster took is published? I'd like to read it as I haven't managed to find it.

ItsAllGoingToBeFine Sat 16-Nov-13 20:44:45

What about Scots living in England or Wales that don't vote or vote no?

I'm sure there will be various ways to apply for Scottish citizenship.

badguider Sat 16-Nov-13 20:46:48

Uk citizens can hold a uk passport and live in Spain so I would imagine you could hold onto your uk passport and live in an independent Scotland.
Whether you can then also be a full Scottish citizen and Scottish passport holder rather than a British expat will depend on the rules the new Scottish government decide.

ItsAllGoingToBeFine Sat 16-Nov-13 20:47:38

I think there are laws and conventions regarding the removal of citizenship. That is why the EU question is so controversial, as it would be difficult to justify stripping 6million EU citizens of their citizenship.

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