to listen to Jamie Oliver on Radio 4 and want to throw things...........

(1000 Posts)
catinabox Mon 02-Sep-13 10:06:40

He's not really doing himself any favours is he?

Lottapianos Mon 02-Sep-13 11:57:23

'I agree with what you're saying, Lotta regarding people not having cooking skills. However almost everyone in the country has access to the Internet and/or a library. '

You're right ExcuseTypos. We do need to cut through the excuses and learned helplessness. And if it's not a parent's responsibility to do everything they can to make sure that their child grows up healthy, then whose is it?

TheOriginalSteamingNit Mon 02-Sep-13 11:59:34

If it's the parents' responsibility, why does Jamie think he has the right or the factual knowledge to start mouthing off about it?

And if he's a business man and answerable only to the question of whether something is profitable, fine: he shouldn't pretend there's some sort of altruistic motive behind it, then!

ExcuseTypos Mon 02-Sep-13 11:59:41

That's a bit mean TheOrigional. No, he's not the most eloquent speaker but you're picking phrases out of context. He actually said he employed 7000 women and if he had the choice of only ever employ on men or women, he would choose women every time.

TheOriginalSteamingNit Mon 02-Sep-13 12:01:12

Yes, and he actually said he liked women and he had some, too. He said both those things.

Lottapianos Mon 02-Sep-13 12:01:41

'If it's the parents' responsibility, why does Jamie think he has the right or the factual knowledge to start mouthing off about it? '

Because lots of parents are not stepping up! And he does know a hell of a lot more about this subject than most

I think it's possible to be a business person and to aim to maximise your profits but also to care about other people and want to behave ethically.

friday16 Mon 02-Sep-13 12:01:45

"I'd hardly count sardines on toast as a 'healthy' meal"

People's reluctance to cook and eat cheap, healthy oily fish is a constant source of wonder to me. Last week I did a meal for four for about two quid because Waitrose (!) were selling herring which, to their financial detriment, they had gutted in advance but were selling at the ungutted price. I bought four to cook there and then and another four to freeze. When I wandered past at the end of my shop I noticed they had sold precisely none more.

Supermarket fish counters routinely have piles of mackerel, sardines and similar which are dirt cheap but which again, very few people are willing to deal with. Nine times out of ten a supermarket fish counter will gut and fillet them for you, but even if they won't, it's hardly a taxing job. You then get all the "but my kids won't eat it" crap, which is only true because people then cook them something else.

And tinned sardines are the cupboard staple of the Gods: mix with sliced peppers and cold pasta for a salad, add a can of tinned tomatoes and top with bread crumbs to make a bake, etc, etc, etc.

lottieandmia Mon 02-Sep-13 12:03:21

'So what if folk can't afford his products, he is a business man, some of you are being deliberately dense about the issues he raised.'

Er, no. The point is that it's quite ironic that he markets products that he acknowledges are not aimed at the very people he criticises because of how they choose to feed their children. As someone up thread says, the issue of what people feed their children and what they eat themselves is a complex one.

If he wants to make crass comments which show very little insight about different people from different socioeconomic backgrounds then he can expect to get a grilling about it.

KoalaFace Mon 02-Sep-13 12:03:29

Huge TVs and gadgets are made easier to get hold of with awful stores like Bright House. There's very little aimed at struggling families to make it easier to buy fruit, veg and fresh meat.

Frozen pizzas, chips and the like can be shockingly cheap. It takes practice and thought and preparation time to make healthy food that is as cheap as those unhealthy options. If that is what Jamie Oliver is trying to promote then very good. But the TV thing is irrelevant.

catinabox Mon 02-Sep-13 12:03:44

It just pisses me off that on one hand 'the poor' are exploited and on the other are blamed and beaten with a big stick.

Anyone who wants to criticise someone’s choices ought to go and move to a sprawling suburban housing development, with no transport, over inflated fuel costs on a key metre, a few hostile neighbours, a crappy over priced 'one stop shop' selling a bag of manky potatoes for £2.50, mass unemployment, a local chippy and try and live off £80.00 per week?

And we are going to complain about someone having a big telly and item of clothes that they feel nice in? So should we expect 'the poor' to walk miles and miles to the shops in their sack cloths and carry back heavy bags of fresh produce purchased affordably from the (not very) local market?

What is the point in blaming people and finger pointing.

I'm bloody grateful every day that i can afford to whack the oven on and cook a lasagne from scratch and chuck in a batch of cakes or two while i'm at it...................... To be in a position to do that and criticise people for their choices when they have so many less is really sadly quite ignorant.

TheOriginalSteamingNit Mon 02-Sep-13 12:05:10

He knows fuck-all about actual poverty, and it's offensive of him to speak as though he does. He knows a lot about nice food, I'm sure, and how to source it etc etc, but he does not know about the issues he's whipping up a Daily Mail frenzy about.

And Lottie, I agree entirely with everything in your post.

Lottapianos Mon 02-Sep-13 12:06:40

'You then get all the "but my kids won't eat it" crap, which is only true because people then cook them something else. '

<applauds>

There's also a surprising number of adults who are seriously resistant to trying any new foods. One of the Children's Centres where I work ran a drop-in session during the summer, where children could get involved in making healthy veg dips. All the food was provided for free and parents and children made the dips together. All lovely jubbly until it came to actually eating the dips! All parents refused and of course all the children did too hmm

lottieandmia Mon 02-Sep-13 12:07:22

I agree catinabox.

YouTheCat Mon 02-Sep-13 12:11:27

What Catinabox said.

It's all very well him criticising but he has no idea about the daily reality of poverty.

limitedperiodonly Mon 02-Sep-13 12:11:37

So should we expect 'the poor' to walk miles and miles to the shops in their sack cloths and carry back heavy bags of fresh produce purchased affordably from the (not very) local market?

I think you've just hit on an idea for Jamie's next programme.

TheOriginalSteamingNit Mon 02-Sep-13 12:11:56

I can recognize what you're talking about with the dips Lotta, but the answer isn't to lambast those parents for the TV or the phone they've got, surely? To be honest, I wouldn't much care for a healthy veg dip myself, but because I'm not poor, that's somehow acceptable....

And I can think of lots what I think of as 'reverse Little Red Hen' scenarios with my kids: ie., everyone enjoys the baking or the cooking, but no-one ends up wanting to eat what's made!

I think then either you look into making things that will go down better (and it doesn't have to be cheesy chips!), or you ask people what they'd like to make, or you try again.... you don't just make sweeping JO statements about how there's no poverty etc.

Nancy66 Mon 02-Sep-13 12:17:13

But are there really people who live on estates that are so isolated that they don't have a supermarket within a 30 minute walk? that there's not a bus they can catch to a shopping centre or market?

As you say the 7-11 type shops they have access to will be massively over-charging.

Is a supermarket delivery done online not an option?

expatinscotland Mon 02-Sep-13 12:17:18

He's a chef who is out to sell books and line his purse however he can. He's not doing anything for altruistic reasons. LOL. Why take him seriously? He's a slack-jawed, motorised garden tool spraffing off his fat gob. Shut up and cook, Jamie.

expatinscotland Mon 02-Sep-13 12:19:01

'But are there really people who live on estates that are so isolated that they don't have a supermarket within a 30 minute walk? '

Yes. I lived in one. And they didn't deliver to that postcode. Surprise, surprise!

Now we live in a rural location where the nearest supermarket is a 2.5 mile walk, the bus costs £4 return and no, they don't offer delivery.

That's more common than you'd think, too.

friday16 Mon 02-Sep-13 12:19:05

"Anyone who wants to criticise someone’s choices ought to go and move to a sprawling suburban housing development, "

I live about four hundred yards from a large council estate that is routinely listed as one of the most deprived in Britain. At least in other parts of the city there's a drug economy; this doesn't even have that. Massive levels of unemployment and (particularly) incapacity benefit, in a post-industrial, ageing white community. Between me and the estate there is a large Sainsbury's, which is pretty decent, decent enough to do a middle class weekly shop if you can't be bothered to go over to Waitrose. Nonetheless, you can watch people filling their trolleys with complete and utter shit, and expensive shit at that. The "oh, food desert" argument simply doesn't apply: they're in a large, modern, fully stocked Sainsburys, and still buying overpriced crap.

But I used to work in another area of the city which is getting on for as deprived, but is probably 80% BME, mostly Bangladeshi and Pakistani. The shops over there were a delight, and people were buying (and presumably cooking) healthy, interesting meals. I used to buy big bags of urad and handfuls of mysteriously vegetables I didn't quite recognise. Even the Asda in the area was worth visiting, and trolleys were full to the brim with healthy ingredients.

So I think the claim that it's about poverty and food deserts may have some mileage, but the legacy of Thatcher as education secretary in the 1970s de-emphasising "Domestic Science" so that we now have two generations who have not been taught to cook has had a pretty catastrophic effect. There's a very depressing thread over on MSE at the moment from a mother who has, it would appear, never cooked and has no idea where to start.

TheOriginalSteamingNit Mon 02-Sep-13 12:19:11

When you're skint, you're much more likely to shop day-to-day, aren't you? The poorer we've been, the less likely to be able to do 'big shops', I know.

AppleYumYum Mon 02-Sep-13 12:19:31

I really admire him, he isn't perfect and he isn't polished, he tries hard and has done more than many others to try to change the state of things, give him a break.

No one likes hearing that they are feeding their kids crap, but parents need to realise that it is a long term game here. It might seem fine today, it was cheap and they were tired or in a hurry... but the child becomes obese, they are teased, it is hard to shift the weight, they have no cooking skills or taste for healthy things, they end up unwell as adults, stress on the NHS system, if they have children they feed them the same stuff as it is all they know and the cycle continues.

I got the impression he had been caught off-guard by the way the show progressed, or that Jane Garvey had thrown in some extra bits he wasn't expecting.

TheOriginalSteamingNit Mon 02-Sep-13 12:23:13

I do agree that Food Tech in schools is awful - now there's a campaign I could get behind.

Put some tomato puree and a chopped onion on a bread roll, add sprinkle of cheese - hey presto, Quick 'n' Easy Pizza! Pour tinned fruit on sliced pre-bought cake, pour carton of custard on fruit - hey presto, Quick 'n' Easy Trifle!

Teach them how you know when chicken is cooked enough not to kill you, and how to make an acceptable pasta sauce. Not all this 'design your own healthy scone' bollocks.

bigkidsdidit Mon 02-Sep-13 12:26:00

I agree with most of what e says.

I am always surprised that on mumsnet, a site with a mostly educated, fairly well off readership, the majority of posters on lunchbox threads say they give their small children crisps and chocolate every day. And claim it is all part of a 'balanced diet'. Actually that is NOT a balanced diet and we have lost sight of what we should be eating in this country, I think, and how cheap it can be.

We eat (toddler and all) sardines on toast often here. Mixed with cream cheese and cucumber on the side. They're delicious!

Lottapianos Mon 02-Sep-13 12:26:03

'Teach them how you know when chicken is cooked enough not to kill you, and how to make an acceptable pasta sauce'

Cooked enough not to kill you is just how I like my chicken! grin You're right though - teach them 10 or 12 meals that you can make in 30 minutes for not much money using fresh ingredients and with no outrageously fancy cooking techniques.

twistyfeet Mon 02-Sep-13 12:26:50

Buses are expensive Nancy

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