...to think all dog owners should have them castrated/spayed (unless if they are for breeding)?

(200 Posts)
LizziePizzie Mon 19-Aug-13 10:05:06

I might be completely out of touch with this, but I thought that part of being a responsible dog owner was that was unless you have a stud dog, you get them castrated/spayed.

Is it cruel to have an entire dog/bitch, keeping them on the lead, or away from other dogs in case they get laid?

Is it cruel to have them castrated/spayed?

Is it just the responsibility of owners of bitches to get them spayed, or both owners of dogs and bitches?

WestieMamma Mon 19-Aug-13 10:39:39

Personally I agree OP. There's really no reason not to, for cats or dogs.

Neutering a male dog:

- significantly increases the risk of osteosarcoma (bone cancer)
- increases the risk of cardiac hemangiosarcoma
- triples the risk of hypothyroidism
- increases the risk of progressive geriatric cognitive impairment
- triples the risk of obesity
- quadruples the risk prostate cancer
- doubles the small risk of urinary tract cancers
- increases the risk of orthopaedic disorders

midori1999 Mon 19-Aug-13 10:44:02

I am against blanket neutering and have mainly kept in neutered dog and bitches as I have always shown my dogs.

However, some of the posts here are worrying and speaking to dog owners in general, many are not aware of problems that can occur, particularly in bitches that are not neutered.

BrokenSunglasses, it doesn't matter how in control of your own dog you are, not everyone else will be sadly. Bitches can be 'raped' against their will by an out of control entire dog, so having them on the lead or under control may well sadly make no difference. Personally, I no longer walk my bitches when in season (I have previously when I've had access to inaccessible private land) but that still doesn't mean someone's out on control entire male isn't going to jump my 6ft garden fence to get at one of them... That said, there's no way on this earth if have an 'accidental' litter because if, despite my precautions, one of my bitches was caught, she'd be straight off to the vets.

BoozyBear Mon 19-Aug-13 10:47:37

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

OP do you understand how a dog's sexual urges happen?

They are not permanently wanting to mate.

Dogs should be under control in public places.

Bitches should be kept in and then closely supervised when they are in heat, so a chance mating should never happen.

The amount of unwanted dogs, is because of irresponsible breeding, not accidental mating.

There is to much cross breeding, this isn't going to be liked, but this creating of mongrels, usually being given a name with "poo" or " doodle" on the end, isn't helping.

OddBoots Mon 19-Aug-13 10:50:46

This is probably a daft question as I don't know much about dogs but is it possible to give a dog a vasectomy rather than castrate them if you don't want to change their personality?

tabulahrasa Mon 19-Aug-13 10:56:27

You can give vasectomies instead...but they're not common, mostly because castration is recommended for all sorts of behavioural issues (some rightly so and some not so much) and also to prevent testicular cancer, which of course a vasectomy wouldn't prevent.

You also get more temporary forms of contraception, injections, implants...I know people who've had an implant to make sure it didn't affect behaviour in a way they weren't happy with and then had them castrated.

CockyFox Mon 19-Aug-13 11:06:59

I am a cat owner so had Dcat done as soon as shr was old enough.
I have limited experience of dogs but I am sure one of my Gran's little dogs was entire for health reasons so think there may be different outcomes for different breeds.
So YmightBU

I believe that all cats should be neutered, until a shortage is shown.

I think that if you buy a kitten, the cost should be calculated for. I bought my DD a kitten as part of her 13th Birthday present, she had been desperate for a cat for years, iI calculated that in total it would cost around £100 and discussed this with my DD ( my children know their budgets).

It is to easy to think that a kitten is only £15.

I think that responsible pet ownership should be an add on lesson in schools.

BrokenSunglasses Mon 19-Aug-13 11:36:35

Midori, I see your point, I don't have any experience of having bitches, we have always had dogs.

In a situation like the one you describe, even if the responsibility isn't yours, there is an irresponsible dog owner in the story somewhere. The other dog should be under control too. If it isn't, then that's a problem, but I don't think it's a problem that should be solved by giving the majority of animals operations that they don't need.

The problem is with the owner who has allowed their dog to rape, not the dog itself, so he shouldn't be the one to pay the price.

VivaLeBeaver Mon 19-Aug-13 11:42:32

I disagree for the same reasons as lougle. Two vets and a behaviorist have all said my fear aggressive dog would be worse if castrated.

TheBleedinObvious Mon 19-Aug-13 11:45:09

This is why I could never have a pet.

I could never do this to an animal.

To do so would be denying them of their animal rights to procreate.

sad

SoupDragon Mon 19-Aug-13 11:47:43

My cats were both neutered but my male dog is not. The vet said it was less clear cut with male dogs as the benefits/risks were more evenly balanced than with females. As he refuses to come back when not on the lead, he is never off the lead when outside so there is no real risk of him becoming a father.

He does get teased by the hussy chihuahuas next door every so often though.

Lora1982 Mon 19-Aug-13 12:04:18

Bowlers it may change him for the better my dog (5) was done last wednesday and he's stopped marking territory in the house and a lot less nasty to other dogs.

Bowlersarm Mon 19-Aug-13 12:13:21

Lora1982 thank God for your post!

I was getting seriously worried by what some people are posting - I don't want to do it to him and then he gets more aggressive.

We will go ahead, as it's the responsible thing to do. Especially as our neighbours have dogs he's now started getting a bit growly with. We don't want it escalating. We have been told he may still have problems with the types of dogs he has always had problems with as it is learned behaviour, but we really need to stop his dislike spreading to other breeds of dogs. That's the aim anyway.

And I suppose because the op is tomorrow, I'm just getting eleventh hour nerves about it.

Chattymummyhere Mon 19-Aug-13 12:16:45

I think the main issue is the non spayed dogs who have irresponsible owners who have "accidental" litters because they see money signs.

I have two bitchs both fully intact, my bitches have a run in the garden with is more secure than my house if I'm honest no male dog is getting in and the wire used it too small for a male dog to get his doghood though..

Breeding is expensive very bloody expensive I say this as someone who had paid over £1,000 before we even knew is a pup would be born, that's without all the whelping box/vet bed/ heat pad/ whelpi / puppy bottles/ towels to dry them / vet check for pups / vac's and microchip for pups / worming etc

If I added it all up I properly sold my pups for £50 "profit" without taking into account the elevated electric bill, the fact you the owner should not leave them alone for 2 weeks before birth and at least 2/3 weeks after birth.

What I regularly see though is Staffys giving birth in normal dog beds, fed on just scraps, it was an accident though see because the kids always let her out.... But it happens again and again.... You can give the dog version of the Map or even have an abortion preformed (can be carried out at any stage however is normally done via an emergency spay) but of course to some that's then spending money rather than making money from the poor dog.

I think all unhealth tested, unregistered, mongrel dogs should be spayed... They add nothing and can cause a lot of damage to the breed if we are talking registered but unhealth tested... I've seen tested males used for stud with hip scores in the 50's that's no good! I won't touch a dog with a score over 14... And something really needs to be some about people selling "pedigree without papers" most of those dogs are as pedigree as I poop £50 notes...

TallulahBetty Mon 19-Aug-13 12:18:27

Our rescue mongrel calmed down a lot after being neutered.

curlew Mon 19-Aug-13 12:21:32

Absolutely, OP. In my Glorious Reign, it will be compulsory. And anyone who talks guff about "denying them the experience of motherhood" will be barred for life from keeping animals.

MrsWolowitz Mon 19-Aug-13 12:22:19

YANBU.

Male or female, cats or dogs, I spay my animals. It's the responsible thing.

MrsWolowitz Mon 19-Aug-13 12:23:17

denying them the experience of motherhood

shock

Curclew, do people really say stuff like that?

tabulahrasa Mon 19-Aug-13 12:24:18

"I think all unhealth tested, unregistered, mongrel dogs should be spayed... They add nothing and can cause a lot of damage to the breed if we are talking registered but unhealth tested..."

Personally with most breeds, I don't think good/clear health testing is enough of a reason to breed either - dogs being bred from should be proven as exceptional at something other than just being a dog.

curlew Mon 19-Aug-13 12:24:26

Yep. Someone's already said it on this thread.

tabulahrasa Mon 19-Aug-13 12:29:40

"Curclew, do people really say stuff like that?"

<obviously not curlew> but yes, yes they do...

They also assume you're going to breed if you have a pedigree, even if like mine it's a decidedly dodgy (though lovely) specimen. I get asked fairly often if I want to breed him to a random bitch, I have a friend who's been told numerous times what a shame it is that she had her bitch spayed because it's a desirable breed even though she's not to type and has dodgy (hereditary) legs.

People also don't want to get male dogs castrated because they humanize it, and somehow feel it matters how 'masculine' they are.

MrsWolowitz Mon 19-Aug-13 12:34:50

grin

I've just seen the post about the "animal right to procreate"

hmm

ubik Mon 19-Aug-13 12:41:51

The irresponsible breeding of animals is shocking - just look on gumtree; people are breeding kittens and asking £100 fir each shock puppies for sale £750+ "we'll deliver..." hmm

My cats were the product of irresponsible owners: they were abandoned before they were a year old, both had produced litters of kittens.

I think you should have a licence to breed animals. You should have a licence for a dog.

Chattymummyhere Mon 19-Aug-13 12:43:38

Oh yes tabulahrasa, they need to be very good at something (working/agility/showing etc) as well unless you have a breed which needs its numbers pumping up to become more diverse due to illness from inbreeding.

People also need to check the lines back to see if the dog/bitch has a high chance of inheriting something, when we breed our bitch we has to watch out for a certain line because crossing the two lines would of been bad for future pups..

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