ZOMBIE THREAD ALERT: This thread hasn't been posted on for a while.
To think that Game of Thrones (the TV version) is over-rated tosh?(111 Posts)
I concede that it is strangely compelling, but on the downside: horribly misogynistic, eye-wateringly racist (orientalism anyone?), woodenly acted (with a few honourable exceptions, and the children are good), the scripts are really terrible, every plot twist is heralded practically with trumpets, and the exposition is plodding.
I like the music and the map with cogs at the beginning though.
Am I missing something or are we just meant to classify it as enjoyable rubbish (like "Revenge") and get over it?
Cheerfully expecting to be destroyed on this one but would be nice to know I'm not completely alone.
Slowloris I agree that Skyler has an awful time of it; but I don't think the depiction of her experiences (as opposed to the experiences themselves) is undermining and nor - as ubik points out - is it at all exploitative, in the sense that it is not played for our pleasure.
I take the point that there are not a large number of female characters in BB. But I still think it is an incomparably better piece of drama by pretty much any measure.
I think you're right that the challenges of exposition are a big part of the problem in GoT. There's just so much that we need to be told in order to follow and actually as I said further up I think the scriptwriters have done a pretty good job insofar as it is rarely confusing.
Thanks anyway for avoiding the spoilers. We're only three episodes into series 2 at the moment.
It is silly and brilliant fun. But I would like to see more penises and semi naked men.
Danaerys is my heroine.
But the treatment of Skyler is completely in keeping with the theme of the show - and actually her relationship with Walter is tuly heartbreaking to watch. I think there is integrity to the way the show treats the character, she is between a rock and a hard place in the end and this situation is not played fir the titillation of the audience.
Kalidasa there are at least a couple of scenes that pass the Bechdel test from memory. I don't want to be specific as it could end up being spoilery for you (Idk if you've finished the second series yet). The show (although not the books) is mygonistic in places though. There's way more time spent in whorehouses with naked ladies than in the books. I agree at times the dialogue isn't brilliant either, but sometimes I think they are just having to cram too much information in too shorter space of time.
The third series, which is deviating more from the books is getting worse for this as well. I think if I'd just watched the show and not read the books I might feel differently about it.
However, I do think YABU to say that Breaking Bad is better. I couldn't get past the second season. It just bored me. There were no relateable characters, and all the women (all two of them as major characters) were portrayed in a really undermining and awful way. I hate that show's treatment of Skyler, for example.
At least in game of thrones there are lots of female characters, some of whom are quite relateable and decent people.
I don't think anyone is saying it's really feminist, or I wasn't anyway. What I meant was lots of people have given it considerable thought as to whether it is anti-feminist, and think that it isn't.
I'm not sure whether it passes the Bechdel test. I prefer things when they do, but it doesn't mean I wouldn't watch them if they don't. I watch very little television full stop though.
But as I said in my first post the OP is NBU because you are entitled not to like or watch it, or find it offensive, same as with anything else.
Not sure I'd count sansa as a strong character, filly
Read the whole series. I think her character is there to show there are different kinds of strength.
Sorry for long absence from my own thread, but thanks for all the responses. I'm glad to see I am not completely alone.
I don't buy the 'it's really feminist' argument I'm afraid. I can't think of a scene that would pass the Bechdel Test for a start (http://bechdeltest.com/) though perhaps someone can? And I do find the 'male-gaziness' of the narration to be pretty overwhelming and in a distasteful way re: sexual violence and exploitation. You could make the same point about the 'white gaze' I think re: the racism.
But mostly I am pleased that at least a few people agree with me about the clunky acting, feeble scripts and predictable plot.
I think it shows quite well how women had/have to negotiate a misogynist world.
You have Arya, Yara and Brienne kicking serious amounts of butt and refusing to conform. The wildling 'spear wives' are known to be every bit as good at the men in battle.
You have the mothers and grandmothers Catlyn and Olena trying to protect their children whilst playing politics and planning marriages.
You have Sanza who is a pawn in the game and is just trying to survive.
Then you have the schemers and manipulators, Cersie and Margaeree (with Olena's help).
Finally the lowest in the chain, the prostitutes, who use their position (no pun intended) to find out secrets to sell to those willing to pay.
They are all navigating a man's world in their own ways.
Exactly ehric, it's a very different scene in the book and he's so tender and kind.
The drogo/daenarys scene was completely different in th book! He's incredibly tender with her and it's very clear that he asks her permission, and she stops crying at the beginning. In the show he plonks her on her knees and rapes her while she weeps, basically. Even if you see her as consenting, it's still a brutish and unpleasant virginity losing, when the book describes it so differently.
Breaking Bad is phenomenal,
I would love to be able to watch a full episode but I find it too violent. The music is very good and the original version with just the human voice and harp is brilliant.
I didn't really see the scene between Danny and Drogo as a rape scene either. More like they were just sealing the deal they had signed up to.
Not sure I'd count sansa as a strong character, filly
I was actually thinking of the scene when his therapist is raped - it was quick, violent and shocking.
But yes the spit roasting scene too- the writers were fond of making you like Tony and his cronies and then showing you the brutality of their world. I think the writing had integrity not evident in GofT ( although it's a different genre, different values perhaps)
The Sopranos had a rape scene which depicted nothing but an act of violence
Are you talking about the spit-roasting scene ubik?
I found that really upsetting, but to me it showed that Tony and his cronies were vile sub-humans. Just like the bouncer charging the women a blow job to enter the room where they could earn more money and get spit-roasted.
I know lots of people find Tony Soprano to be an anti-hero and lots of women fancy him, but I can't legislate for people who are hard of thinking.
That act of casual violence and humilation, followed by worse, made it obvious to me that you should despise this person. If people interpreted it differently, like I said, you can't legislate for taste.
Dany isn't the only strong female character, there is Catelyn, Cersei, Sansa, Arya, Asha, Osha, Ygritte, Brienne, Arianne, Obara, Nymeria, Tyene, Margery...off the top of my head.
And far worse happens to some of the male characters .
The scene with Dany/Drogo was filmed exactly as it is in the book. Not a rape scene there or in the TV programme. People are projecting their own views onto it.
As for Judd Apatow - I was rather meh about Bridesmaids. I loved Girls-that's really worth seeking out as it depicts the naive and entitled twenty something's perfectly. Freaks and Geeks is entertaining but we are also on last season of Curb Your Enthusism which is in a different league.
In grrm's defense, that scene is not a rape scene in the book and is in fact really lovely.... It was the first time we saw Drogo as a caring human being.
In fact I think that was the moment I turned against the show, they took a lovely scene and turned it into rape
Exactly Ubik. Rape is violence. It's not an act involving a pretty young woman with her breasts bouncing round and a few photogenic tears.
I watched one and a half episodes, I had to pause so many times to snigger at DH at how silly the acting was when you added in my pausing to comment on how obvious and badly written it all was, it was taking us too long and it just left me feeling slightly irate and patronised. Also the sexism.
Why on earth are you continuing OP? There are better ways to spend your evenings!
Winters - I agree. The Sopranos had a rape scene which depicted nothing but an act of violence.
We have also enjoyed Breaking Bad
But there are plenty of strong female characters in GoT who haven't been abused.
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