to feel hurt for my fatherless son

(130 Posts)
spiritedaway Mon 04-Feb-13 21:24:04

I have 4 dc- the youngest is 2 the eldest 10. The youn gest 2 have no contact with their father. My Dp wants to move in and be a dad to my little 2. He has shown great commitment over the last year during a fairly long distance relationship. He would like a child of his own. To not have one is a deal breaker. I am currently a single mum of 4. I would love a baby together but i need to weigh against needs of the other kids. I feel like he is saying my little 2 are not enough and would almost be downgraded by his own child. He saying he just doesn't want to always feel like an outsider looking in. I am over 40. I also fear becoming a single mum of 5. I asked him what if i say no, he replied he would leave. If i try, but we can't then he says that would be ok. Is this more like wants me to prove something to him? I really feel it is crunch time.

Hissy Thu 07-Feb-13 07:38:26

I don't necessarily think he is desperate for a baby though.

He's desperate to make a point. For you to prove yourself to him, because of his past.

My ex demanded I pass all sorts of tests. There was always one more thing I needed to prove.

This is the guy's first year, and this is his first test. He wants control. I have a feeling it's THAT more than anything.

Only you will know if that could be true spirited.

Hissy Thu 07-Feb-13 07:32:14

The evidence does point to the latter. The stuff about the ex, the threats, it's all there.

I don't doubt he thinks he does love you, but I think he has that confused with 'need' he has a NEED for a family, and one of his own. I can't see anywhere in all this that he's thinking of your feelings.

I can see you only thinking of him, because he's demanding you to. Gradually now, you are beginning to think about YOUR thoughts and feelings, and those of your DC you already have.

It's good that this is a LDR, cos at least you do have the space to think.

Your relationship is in no way ready for the 'having a baby' conversation. You need to be 100% sure of him, and I don't think, given his behaviour, that you can be.

The most responsible thing to tell him now is 'Not Now.' And at the moment, if he pushes you, or threatens you, the answer is a flat No. If he wishes to ignore your right to decide, your right to wait, then that's not on.

You owe him nothing, except honesty. If you don't want any more DC, that's your decision. If he wants to make it a dealbreaker, that's his decision.

It really IS that simple.

Things happen for a reason. This man is a transition, you've learned all you can from him. Next one will be better. Please don't stay on for the sake of a year, it's nothing. There is no such thing as a relationship investment.

spiritedaway Thu 07-Feb-13 00:45:54

i cross posted with. . . myself! It disappeared 1st time :-)

spiritedaway Thu 07-Feb-13 00:44:24

Luckily for my parents they live far away ;-) Hope everything works out ok for your cousin and her children.

spiritedaway Thu 07-Feb-13 00:41:25

Really well put Astelia. . hard on her parents! lucky for mine they live far away;) Hope everything yours out for your cousin and her children.

Astelia Thu 07-Feb-13 00:28:05

He sounds desperate for a baby and is putting you under huge pressure to have another child. Yet you already have four. Statistically it doesn't look good and I would think that you will end up looking after five by yourself because he will not cope with the day to day hard work of bringing up children.

It is hard enough bringing up your own children who you have known all their lives, who know the expectations, who (hopefully) respect you as a parent, who share extended family with you.

Being parachuted in would like being put in charge of a school boarding house where you don't get to send them home and they all know more than you do. Add in perhaps not much space and not much money as there are so many people. It is a recipe for stress and chaos.

My cousin did have a fifth baby with a new man, it all went pear shaped of course. None of the children are doing well and her elderly parents are taking a lot of the strain.

spiritedaway Wed 06-Feb-13 23:41:14

Thanks y'all smile. Been giving the trying for a baby thing lots of thought. Either he really wants his own child but loves me so much he can't imagine leaving me or he needs me to try for a baby to prove something. Wish i knew which. Because i know he is insecure i am guessing it's the latter. Also because of how the conversation went at the time. I do think he loves me, though sometimes in a bit of a frantic way. I love him a lot. I connect with him and i just feel i understand him and his past hurts, even though he doesn't talk about it i know a lot about his past circumstances. That doesn't make it good though. . i can't take a risk. I feel pretty bereft at the thought of losing him though so a frank talk is in order. Wish me luck. Sorry to witter on so but this really helps. My friends are all seemingly happily married and although i have some fab, supportive friends, i don't want to start banging on about another relationship after the mental drama of my last. . so thanks again x

Hissy Wed 06-Feb-13 16:59:35

I think he ought to live NEARER for a year, not move in just yet.

I think if he can stop whining on about the ex, and everything else that's frankly none of his business then you may give him a chance at moving in with you.

You have too much to lose by moving him in with you and your DC too soon, better you get to know the real him first before sharing a roof with him.

Writehand Wed 06-Feb-13 16:25:33

I'd offer a compromise: let's live together for a year then, if we still feel the same, let's get married and try for a baby. Put it to him that he really has no idea at present what it's like to be a SD 24/7, and he may hate it.

Your misgivings about being a single mum of 5 are very understandable, and surely he must see this? OK, as people say, marriage doesn't stop people leaving but it tends to make people consider what they're entering into in a serious way.

hamdangle Wed 06-Feb-13 16:19:54

If you don't want another child then you shouldn't have one because someone has threatened you! Regardless of how wonderful the man seems no relationship comes with a guarantee and if you feel that you couldn't cope with raising five children on your own then you need to say no.

I don't think him wanting another child is necessarily a rejection of your children but I can understand how it would feel that way. I met my husband when my son was 5. He has never met his dad so DH is a father too him. We have only just had a child together after 11 years and only because DS has grown up and I got a bit empty nest. DP never felt the need though because he saw DS as his own. He's always been very involved though. In fact, he did clubs, activities, book bags, PE kits and all that stuff (including all cleaning and laundry) because I'm a bit of a disorganised mess. If this man was right for you then he would be coming into your life to help take up some of the burden and responsibilities not put upon you more!

NicknameTaken Wed 06-Feb-13 15:53:32

Sorry I posted and ran yesterday, but don't like this guy's tone. I agree, if someone wants a child, of course it's good to be upfront. But it's this attitude he has to your abusive ex - you'd expect a new partner to feel compassion for you (and I don't mean some kind of saviour complex, riding to your rescue thing, which isn't healthy either). Instead he seems to have this weird kind of jealousy because it meant you "gave" your ex so much. He doesn't sound an emotionally healthy person to have a relationship and especially a child with.

Hissy Wed 06-Feb-13 11:08:15

Yep, that's what 'enables' others to treat us badly.

Been there, done that.. smile

I think it's potentially what makes us susceptible.

spiritedaway Wed 06-Feb-13 10:52:13

it really is no excuse. . though a weakness of mine is i empathise and rationalize other people's motivation for being twatty smile

Hissy Wed 06-Feb-13 10:35:13

Given his background, he understands all to well the dynamic, but is re-hashing it to keep you reliving it.

It could be that his own hurt makes him do that, but that's no excuse for him to be so unsupportive, and so damning of you. You ARE strong, you DID get out. You are safe, you are free. You have nothing to be answerable for.

Your past is none of his concern.

My ex did this and it was maddening!

spiritedaway Wed 06-Feb-13 09:56:57

FWIW. . bf's mother suffered abuse from his step father and she stayed for a few years. When he wants to talk about why i didn't get my kids out i think he really wants to talk about why she didn't get him out.

spiritedaway Wed 06-Feb-13 09:52:09

Sounds so much like my ex who was the most supportive person i had ever had in my life..until about 6 months after our daughter was born. I was completely vulnerable when i met him. My ex husband was threatening suicide, having no contact with the our little 2, i had no financial support, couldn't pay the rent and was looking at eviction. Enter knight in shit stained armour. I don't actually feel so vulnerable now. . we are financially independent, though skint, and have, so far, escaped a powerful narcassist who has access to sensitive information. I have had some counselling and done a lot of reading. I know the signs on paper but now i am not sure if i am seeing them everywhere. . does that make sense? Also the person i am with can not get his head round what happened and definitely has this idea that i must have adored my abuser because i didn't get out. This despite the fact i have got out!

Hissy Wed 06-Feb-13 07:43:55

I think setting out the stall to say, this is me, this is my situation, it works for us, and if anyone wants in, to an extent, they have to fit in and muck in.

I think you ARE beginning to look at your own part in your life, and that is the key issue for recovery here.

If anyone's been in an abusive environment, they've been conditioned to over-ride their own needs and feelings. To an extent we nEed do that as a parent too. But it's not the healthiest way to be, not for us, or for our DC. Our self esteem is paramount, our happiness is key.

Happy Mum, happy kids. Set the example that your DC need to see, that they will be uppermost in your thoughts, but so are YOU sometimes. Everyone else comes after that ON MERIT!

I met a guy like whethergirl described, he went all out to acquire a family, my instincts screamed at me all through his showering me with gifts and leaflets for things to do with my son. He talking about moving in, about us all going out together. This in less than a month!

I learned to trust my instincts there and then, and to know that I could protect myselt and my son. I dumped him. Had to call the police for him to take it seriously though. The guy was a friutloop.

There are men - usually with the dreadful family backgrounds - that do go for the readymade family. In my case it may have been down to the fact that he was actually impotent, but the insecurity triggered by the lack of consistent and positive parenting was also extremely prevalent in this man's background.

it's not the bad background, the desire for a family, that's understandable. it's the lfallout from it when the thinking is warped, the engths to which they'll go to get one, to trample over our feelings to get their way. It's this that is concerning.

ElectricSheep Wed 06-Feb-13 00:11:39

* I Know others will disagree

ElectricSheep Wed 06-Feb-13 00:10:52

Massive alarm bells for me too. I agree with everything Hissy has said.

It is far too soon imho for you to be contemplating allowing him anywhere near your precious vulnerable DCs.

I know will disagree, but I think it takes proper saintliness to make step ('blended' ergh) families work. It's just so fraught with potential resentments, inequalities, differing priorities and sheer territorialness (if that's a word).

He already seems to resent that you have had 4 DC with another man and to want you to show you love him more by being willing to sacrifice your own needs/wants as you did for your Ex. That's a really warped bit of thinking on his part and shows a horribly demanding/entitled attitude that's about what he can get out of you.

If I were you I'd look for someone nice to go out with, who wants to do nice things with you, but I would not be thinking of moving anyone in until your DC had left home.

LyingWitchInTheWardrobe Tue 05-Feb-13 23:04:39

spirited... your post at 22:57 is a bit of a contradiction. Not yours - his. Or that's how it reads to me anyway.

He didn't want children with anybody previously... fatherhood not a priority then?
You've completed your family... he appears to be testing your strength of feeling towards him.
He doesn't love you unconditionally because he'll leave if you 'don't try'. Don't your feelings matter? After all, if fatherhood was really that important to him, he would have had children with somebody by now.
I don't believe that he's being genuine in what he says, it's very odd... and manipulative on a grand scale. You don't do that with the person you purport to love.

whethergirl Tue 05-Feb-13 23:02:59

Also, I would put a complete stop on him mentioning your ex like that. That is totally unreasonable and very cruel actually.

whethergirl Tue 05-Feb-13 23:00:21

spirited, I notice that you haven't actually spoken much about your feelings about him? This all seems to be about him and your kids. You don't even sound that upset about the prospect of him leaving you, or you haven't seemed that enthusiastic about having a future with him...correct me if I'm wrong.

I'm afraid warning bells are ringing for me too. fwiw my ds doesn't have a dad, and I met someone who apparently fell head over heels for me from the word go. He too was eager to spend lots of time with me and ds as a 'family', ds adored him and he made so much effort with ds. He asked to marry me within 6 months.

In hindsight, I can now tell you that he was pretty dysfunctional, (which became more and more obvious over the 2 yrs of our relationship). He was very needy and desperately wanted a perfect family, it was fulfilling a need in him. He also had a dd and he used to say things like, he wished I was her mum and would tell others that I 'loved' her when I hadn't said that nor felt that way. All that 'love' he felt for ds - it wasn't real. It was more about him using that to stay with me, and about him feeling loved and needed.

I deeply regret I let him into my life so quickly as ds got very attached to him and was devastated when I split up with him. In his eyes, he had now lost 2 dads. I will never, EVER do that again. DS doesn't need a dad, he has me, I'm more than enough and he can depend on me forever. Btw, when I split up with him, he showed his true colours and got very abusive. That's not real love.

Please take care with him getting too involved with your children so quickly. Anyone can throw a few snowballs, it doesn't mean a thing. Don't take risks, your children are too vulnerable and too precious for that. They can depend on you. Can you really say, 100% that they can depend on him? He is already talking about leaving you (and them).

spiritedaway Tue 05-Feb-13 22:59:13

I am going to stick around and keep aware of how often i am made to feel guilty these days. And i will check out that other thread. Thankyou

spiritedaway Tue 05-Feb-13 22:57:16

basically the situation is he doesn't want children with anybody else and never wanted them until he was with me. He says he will leave if i won't try but i feel that's more as a reaction to what he feels to be, or chooses to portray as, a rejection ...since he still says he doesn't want to have children with anybody but me.

Hissy Tue 05-Feb-13 22:43:06

I don'tknow the answer, I'm surprised and at a loss tbh.

Dare say you might be too! :-)

Just think, watch, observe and think some more.

I'm not sure if there's something that doesn't add up here somehow.

Keep posting, if you find it useful of course, maybe time will tell what's going on,

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