ZOMBIE THREAD ALERT: This thread hasn't been posted on for a while.
Miss Dickson Wright - what a nasty vicious racist woman she is!(408 Posts)
Well she fits in very well with the DM ethos.
She is entitled to her opinion. I didn't find it racist personally. She was describing an experience.
I don't mind what Clarissa says but I do think a country that has the BNP and EDL should be wary of calling individuals vile racists because there isn't that far to go then for the perfectly legal filthsome bullying shitfucks who are allowed to go and chant their shit on the streets. I also have the other side of the coin, the British Muslims who feel they are being brought into anti west sentiments and are sick of being told what to think and who to talk to by their Imam and elders.
I agree that anything that encourages the EDL to start spouting is dangerous but, it is the Daily Mail, what the hell should you expect?
The British living in Southern Spain. Do they "integrate"?
I share that dream of integration, but my dream does not involve everyone saying Alright mate and having Fish and chips of a Friday. I live in East London. I love it here, but have no illusions. Different groups like to have their communities with their own services. Local shops here are very different from those you'd find in the countryside. I like it, it's interesting. I don't usually feel uncomfortable, though I have been made to feel very uncomfortable in some local shops, but I don't have to go in them, and I'm not sure that every shopkeeper has a duty to make me feel welcome by bothering to speak to me in English.
Frantic51, she says she knows about Muslims, so she should know to either approach people in a way which is appropriate to their culture, or if she felt intimidated and would be looking unapproachable herself, just go and ask for directions in a shop! There was no need for her to try to stop people in the street. I imagine she got too close to the men, or tried to walk along with them, and it's not culturally acceptable to try to mix with Muslim women you don't know on the street, uninvited like that. The burkas are a bit of a clue.
Sassh DHs Bengali parents manage all that, in fact though I hesitate to sound like Citizen Kahn FIL is a community leader, yet they live on a street with majority White neighbours, shop in a variety of shops etc. it's possible to integrate whilst keeping your culture intact.
Ophelia of course Polish/Russian etc communities still use their own language and culture Integration isn't about what language you speak or religion you follow it's about mixing or becoming insular and the more abuse and media hype there is the more insular we force those communities to be.
FWIW DH supports Bangladesh at cricket, Wales in the Rugby and England in football fickle fucker.
There is a huge correlation between ignorance and fear. I am anglo-asian and no, I have never felt the need to label places as ghettos. How repulsive a word.
I believe in free speech, but she truly shot herself in the foot with:
But Miss Dickson Wright remained defiant, saying: 'I'm surprised any of the people who might object could read what I wrote as it is written in English.'
Clearly she has put up her credentials and bigotry. The frightening thing about bigotry is that you generally cannot shift people on their views. It used to make me sad, mad and yes, I have got into some flaming rows with people. I may not look asian and so I usually let people rant away, before revealing my background.
'Outcast' in her own country? Britain and all countries are in flux. No country is owned by anyone. Trade, commerce and travel have caused people to migrate, explore and during the war, we begged immigrants to come here to help.
This blind stupidity does make me very sad. It's not a case of being left or right...but it is a case of being intelligent. At A Level psychology level, we did a study - asking people questions like 'Do you like/dislike mexican people (for example) The next question would be 'Do you know any mexican people?' Of course, if the hated them, it was often the case that there was suspicion and ignorance.
So this is the case here. One less than sensitive woman and her views. Thankfully still minority view. I love talking and learning about other cultures - here and abroad. Brits abroad have their own...I won't use that vile word ghetto...but they often stick to their own little ex-pat communinities, which is sad for them and means they don't truly experience the country.
Yes, I want the Coke ad and yes, I know that is unreasonable and far-fetched. But stupidity will always make me sad and some open-minded progressive thinking on the complexities of multiculturism, will make me sit up and listen....
She probably just looked a bit crazy. She does have the 'eccentric old lady vibe'. I didnt realise she was only 65
Happy, she says she has some Muslim acquaintances, and friends. I have a Muslim cousin since she married her Muslim husband some thirty odd years ago, but I wouldn't have known about not speaking to women in burkas!
In this country it is rude to ignore someone who speaks to you, particularly if they are asking for help. That's one of the difficulties with multiculturalism, one man's rudeness is another man's good manners. I don't think one can label someone, "rude" if they are simply unknowing.
I am 68. My son has a Muslim wife and lives in a Muslim country where I always feel safe. However, parts of Bradford terrify me. I was a teacher for 30 years and for the last two I did supply teaching. The only time I was ever afraid was in a secondary school in Bradford,predominantly Asian origin children where the year 10 boys set out to intimidate and humiliate me.
They wouldn't let the girls in the class speak-shouting at them in what I think was Urdu and making suggestive gestures.
After half a day I told them they had dishonoured their families by their behaviour and asked how they would feel if anyone treated their mother or grandmother as they had treated me.
I was meant to be there for a week but at lunchtime I told the head I would finish the day but wouldn't go back to that class and wouldn't come back the next day.
I have taught all ethnic mixes and found that Indian boys were a delight as were Chinese and West Indian groups. White British boys in lower sets were often surly and unresponsive whereas girls of any background were as variable as any group of people but those boys in Bradford made me have feelings I was ashamed of.
Racist? No just bloody petrified!
I made regular visits to an old lady as part of a charity, two years ago. When finally this very fierce lady of 87 consented to some outside help from carers, she told me 'Make sure none of them are asian.' When I went to interview care providers, without any comment re her staff's credentials or nationality the person I talked to gave a nod and a wink when I gave the age of the woman and said 'We only employ White British - old folk prefer it.' Shocking, not to mention illegal.
So I told my lady off and several people came to help her, some of whom were asian. She got to know them, was fascinated about their families and backgrounds. She forgot her fear.
Also Asia is a huge continent. By asia most fearful folk mean India and Pakistan and even lump all Islamic people in this bracket too. So they need a geography lesson, as I loftily told the boy at school who repeatedly called me an Egyptian. Humour and sarcasm works a treat.....
I grew up in the rural place she calls home now. It is very undiverse in terms of cultures and nationalities that aren't white British.
That's no excuse for her stinking attitude. On a similar note, she stinks too. She uses the same butcher as me bye by god she's rank.
I was going to ask what sort of whiff, Mrskeith - bottomy, Bo-y, sweaty Betty, feet, meaty leakage....but it is near my breakfast.....
I don't know about you, but if I need directions in a busy street, I'll scan the passers-by looking for friendly eye contact before I approach anyone. I would probably pick a woman over a single man in any high street, and I wouldn't hesitate to ask a woman in a hijab or unveiled burka, if she'd given me eye contact first. I wouldn't ask anyone who hadn't given me this 'signal' that they were happy to be asked... But CDW doesn't strike me as someone who's very senstive to body language, non-verbal feedback, or indeed other people's POVs at all! She probably barrelled in demanding directions without even thinking about other people's needs or the impression she was making!
Frantic, I think you're right that one person's rudeness is another person's manners, but it's not as simple as "In this country it is rude to ignore someone who speaks to you, particularly if they are asking for help". There are lots of subtleties - think about rules and expectations about children not speaking to strangers, responses to people begging, ignoring market researchers and charity collectors, all those situations when crowds walk around someone collapsed on a pavement, etc...
The social 'rules' around encounters with strangers are subtle and complex in any society, and they all rely on individuals being sensitive to the reactions they're getting from other people... People like CDW who lack sensitivity are bound to have some problems!
Musky meaty wet Barbour wax jacket smell
I live in a very multicultural area of a city and don't recognise it as a 'ghetto'
There are a lot of Sikh and Muslim people, over 70 languages spoken at my DDs school.
Never had reason to feel worried about this. Muslim shopkeepers are very nice, man across the hall with the wives with covered faces ( can't remember what it's called) always says hello on the stairs.
Our community seems to rub along quite happily. There are issues ( children arriving at school unable to speak English, Pakistani children taken out of school for months and months to visit relatives, then returned) but day to day it's all fine really.
If you waited for some eye contact in some places, you'd never ask directions! I wouldnt assume she, or anyone else, would "barrel in demanding directions"! I've asked people directions before without eye contact, always beginning, "excuse me, I'm sorry to bother you, but..." I've never been ignored!
I live in Leicester, shes's talking bollocks.
I wouldn't describe Edinburgh as rural, mrskeith, and I take my hat off to anyone who runs a butcher's shop without a, "meaty" smell!!
Interesting comments about Leicester. My dh comes from Leicestershire and my God, his brothers are hideously racist. It's got to a point where I can't have a discussion with them because they think it's funny to 'wind me up' being racist. The argument is that I wasn't brought up in a big diverse City like they were so I don't know what horrible people these 'forriners' are. Just pathetic. Luckily dh is completely different!
Inveresk is a village outside Edinburgh, frantic. Mrsk was describing the smell of CDW, not the shop. It's just where she met (and smelt) her.
I think she's entitled to her opinion.
I wouldn't say she's led a sheltered life either. I imagine she met all sorts of people sleeping rough in the darker days of her life and when she was in rehab.
Ah! It was a light hearted joke, Punk. Someone said, upthread I think, that she lived in Edinburgh, so I was confused. I met her once at a book signing, she didn't smell on that occasion!
She is not a vicious, nasty racist - calm down, dearie me! What she is saying about multiculturalism failing is true. I recognise her pov from older members of my family, you can't expect everyone to be falling over themselves to prove how pc they are.
There are Muslim men who look down on women - been there, experienced that. I'd feel uncomfortable in that situation.
I think jumping to the conclusion that anyone who doesn't wildly embrace all social changes as racist is a tad hysterical.
I'm very of any village that still has it's own butcher!
I also think that vicious, nasty racist is ott and a tad hysterical. The truly vicious, nasty racists that I have had the misfortune to encounter would never in a million years speak to any obvious Muslims, let alone demean themselves to ask for help from someone they hated/despised.
I think jumping to the conclusion that anyone who doesn't wildly embrace all social changes as racist is a tad hysterical."
I'm not. I'm jumping to the conclusion that people who say racist things are racist.
Join the discussion
Registering is free, easy, and means you can join in the discussion, get discounts, win prizes and lots more.Register now
Already registered with Mumsnet? Log in to leave your comment or alternatively, sign in with Facebook or Google.
Please login first.