to hate peoples unconcious working-women bashing?

[frgr]

.. i'm fed up with this, i really am. I mean, i presume most women on here would be supportive of a woman's right to work after kids, with a few exceptions maybe

but in the last week i've discussed with 2 people who've described really stupid things regarding a woman's right to work or have leisure time. example:

last week my FIL (never has quite udnerstood why H and I do 3 days each per week, so we get slightly more than 1 income but both involved in upbringing) said, I don't know where you get the time to go to the gym

my H has his hobbies (he's into tennis big time), so why wouldn't i "have time" to go to the gym? i only go twice a week, once before i go to work and once in the evening

and then, last night, my best friend (SAHM of 1, FT) said that she woudn't cope going back to work with the house and that she hardly gets any "her" tiem as it is. i'm trying to be supportive to her with rpactical help on how to set boudaries (her H is helpful, just a bit head in the clouds sometimes)... but really, this shocked me, since she's someone who would definitely agree that in THEORY housework / childcare should be shared if people work equally.

AIBU????

[PiaThreeTimes]

You're talking about women with young children, not women generally aren't you? Or have I misunderstood.

I'd be amazed if anyone was bashing the idea of women working in general.

[frgr]

p.s. thread prompted by the "3 week old baby in childcare" thread, didn't want to deter the other one buy pushing this further, it just made me remember how annoyed I was at FIL :) So no offense meant to the OP of the other thread here.

[TattyDevine]

YANBU, there is nothing wrong with working, choice or otherwise.

What gets me though, is the bashing women who dont work often get. I pulled an OP up on it in another post today because she said her bosses wife "sits at home on her arse" - i.e she doesn't work.

So you are damned if you do and damned if you dont. If you dont need the money, and dont derive any particular satisfaction from the rat-race (perhaps you've been there, done that), then why would you feel the need to go to work? Why be slated for not?

If you need, or want, to work, why get slated for that either?

It sucks. YANBU.

[cidre]

What Tatty said.

[Tee2072]

It totally sucks and it's such a waste of energy.

Women just need to support each other, no matter their choices, and stop judging each other.

I believe if we can stop doing this then others will stop as well.

[Poogles]

As a working mum I find people assume I have put my career before DC and that I must either live in a s**thole or spend a fortune on home help. None of the above is true. I work my arse off to keep all balls in the air.

Do I assume SAHM have it easy? In some ways yes but in other ways no. My sister is a SAHM whcih means she isn't as 'busy' as me trying to fit everything in but she also doesn't have the 'luxury' of going to work and not being Mum for a few hours.

I know a few women who would love to go back to work but cant because of the lack of affordable childcare and others like me who have to work full time to make it worthwhile.

We need to accept that whilst the grass may appear greener on the other side, it often isn't and the 'choice' to work or not isn't always a choice.

A sht sandwich is still a sht sandwich , regardless of the bread it is made with.

[TattyDevine]

The grass is always greener on the other side, generally because its fertilsed with bullshit.

[Bucharest]

Thought this must be about that thread.

Not much "unconscious" about it I'd say.

YANBU.

[prettyfly1]

This annoys me so much. Pankhurst et al did not chain themselves to railings so we could bitch and whine about which choices we each make, they did it so we had the right to choose what we did. Honest to god the biggest stumbling blocks I know to womens independence and rights these days are OTHER WOMEN. If you want to stay at home with your kids and can afford it FAB. If not and you want to work GREAT. If you want to do something different DO IT. No judgy pants whinging on required.

[frgr]

i'm glad to see i am not alone (at least so far), i was considering posting this in the feminism bit at first

i don't know if this is just my experiences but comments from women wrt our working situation and its oddness, the worst ones have been from othe WOMEN, not men (1 woman at work assumed my H couldn't get more hours at work and that's why i'd decided to go back... he's technically a self employed contractor although with the same firm for 18 months.. but the comment/attitude from my (female) boss was very surprising, although she has no children so maybe there's a story there for all i know)

in fact looking back i can only name 1 or 2 men who have made horrible comments (the usual from FIL, ribbing H that he isn't "a man" now that he's not working FT, said in jest but it's really a nugget of what he thinks... ) . that's interestng

[Francagoestohollywood]

Well, I think that on here there is much more wohm bashing than sahm bashing.

[GeekOfTheWeek]

YANBU

People are up in arms if a sahm is judged but wohm are fair game

Fucks me off it does.

[wastingaway]

You do have a very unusual set-up frgr and many people go by that.

All mothers are judged.

[MortBlacksand]

Doesn't help when certain advert suggest any time spent alone makes us SELFISH - nice one Radox...

[prettyfly1]

yes wasting away, frequently by other mothers, which is incredibly sad as most of us know that within reason, most different approaches tend to be fairly ok in terms of the end results of parenting. Women are so bloody nasty to one another - weight, spending habits, parenting choices, step parent or first wife, job or sahm, clean or messy house, even what we wear to take the kids to school ffs. NONE of us gets it entirely right and ALL of us are different so lets do the most femininist thing we can and respect one anothers rights to our own choices, albeit choices made on the back of opinions different to our own.

[BarringtonWomble]

Yanbu. Who cares what anyone else does? Really it completely amazes me why so many have opinions about what other people do.

I am a sahm. I don't give a fig about other people's choices nor do I expect to have to defend mine.

I assume people are just trying to get through life and have come up with an arrangement which works for their families. Isn't that what we're all trying to do? We just all do it differently.

[nameymcnamechange]

I think mumsnetters are more sensitive to perceived criticism of whatever their personal circumstances are.

[curlymama]

Do you really think your SAHM friend meant to critisize you just because she said that she wouldn't be able to cope? She may not have meant that at all, and it seems a bit oversensitive of you to take it that way.

When mine were little one of my friends worked 3 days a week, she had a toddler and twin babies, and I'm sure I made a comment along those lines at some point. The feeling behind it was honestly that I was in huge admiration of her, I was a scatty mess with two dc's and she was fantastic at orgainising her life and family so that she could fit it all in. She's a brilliant Mum.

As for Fil's comments, I find it's always best to ignore the majority of what in laws say. More often than not, they are wrong.

[insertexpletive]

My pet hate is my PIL who constantly refers to my SIL as a 'FT mum'

I am a FT mum too - I just happen to have to go out to work to put food on the table.
I am no less of a mum when not in the house.

To be fair though, it is less about the terminology, and more about the intent that gets my goat.

[2shoes]

dear me, I never realise it was such a touchy subject.
I have oft commented to a friend thatI amazed that she fits it all in, she has 4 kids (one severelye disabled) and works as well. I mean it as a compliment, didn't realise it was abad thing to say

[prettyfly1]

I think namechange has a point. We are in the main often very sensitive to the perceived judgements of others as well as very quick to judge. It sucks and as women we need to just learn to focus on OUR families, OUR choices and OUR lives.

[frgr]

i have to admit maybe i worded my OP wrong

with my FIL i think you got my point

but with my friend, she has been nothing but supportive of me, i should have emphasised that - i really was more talking about the fact that it seems sad to me that, she feels she wouldnt be able to cope IF she had my job, because the TINY bit of Me time she gets would get shoved away even further down the priority list

yet her H (perfect gentlemen if a bit scatterbrained about the practicalities of raising kids FT) has no critisisms about fitting in his hobbies (he's into rugby, he leads a local team)... it just seems a shame for her that when he and she are working full time (hypothetically) that it's her time that's the flexible thing... it just seems another barrier to working FT (not helped by my own FIL's idiotic comments about my own H being not a real man because he works only 60% weeks).

sorry if i confused on that bit with the OP, that wasn't my intention :)

[frgr]

"further down the priority list" - and

... EVEN THOUGH she would of course agree with me that she should only do 50% of the childcare and housework in that situation. it isn't the reality. and that's an unconcious barrier to women working. argh i'm not sure if i'm making my point clear here - does anyone know what i'm trying to say?

[mumbar]

I only have people ask how I manage to work. I'm a FT single parent (ex-p not around) and work FT. But my job is term time only which does mean I get time with DS which is lovely. My 'me' time is my Open Uni degree which others comment isn't really 'me' time but I want to do it to provide a better life for me and DS so my choice ... it's me time iyswim

People who I know tht don't don't because they don't think they can. Maybe a confidence thing?

[minipie]

I do frgr

but I don't think it's unconscious working women bashing, I just think it's unconscious sexist assumptions. i.e. both your FIL and your friend are making the unconscious assumption that the childcare/domestic responsibilities fall mainly to the woman even when she is working.

I don't see that as criticism of working women - more a failure to apply the logic that says "and this ought to apply to men too"...