Mumsnet Talk

I really really hate the phrase "There but for the grace of God go I". It is always used to 'show empathy', and to recognise that any situation could happen to any of us at any happen.

But.

There BUT FOR THE GRACE OF GOD....

Are people really suggesting that others who are in tough situations (losing a child, suffering disability etc etc ) are in that situation BECAUSE GOD DID NOT SHOW GRACE?????

Really?

Think about it. The phrase suggests that the speaker might also be in that situation, but somehow, God has shown grace and prevented it. Whatever your religious beliefs, I think it is offensive to suggest that somehow someone in a difficult situation is there because God has shown them less favour. I happen to be a Christian, but even if I weren't I would find it a strange thing to suggest.

AIBU?

Are you perhaps taking it a bit literally? Is it really literally talking about the grace of God - I personally didn't think so, but I could be wrong.

That doesn't trouble me in particular, though I do see your point.

I am not a fan of "If I'm spared" as in "see you tomorrow then", "yes, if I'm spared". Bit morbid IMHO and gives me visions of a manic God with thunderbolts raining down.

Not sure if it is U or not, on a slightly different tack I absolutely hate "if we are spared". Doesn't actually mention God, or whatever, but the implication is there.

hmm. I think you're reading it wrong, TBH. or just reading too much into it.

I'd never actually say it to somebody who was in a bad situation, as that is insensitive. but I do use it a lot in general conversation (I'm an atheist BTW) - just to say how grateful I am that I am lucky and not suffering with whatever situation we're talking about (something on the news e.g)

um have you ever actually heard someone say this? Ever?

I have only seen it in old books. No one says it.

That is how it is used - it is used as a kind of acknowledgement that are lucky not to be suffering whatever someone else is. It's just the wording that really bugs me, as it suggests the person suffering trouble is suffering that because of some lack of grace, that has been shown to the speaker, thus preventing them from suffering.

I'm sure it's not used in that way. Just bugs me.

Xpost Tippy!!!

sanielle, always always on MN. You could try searching for "grace of God"

I see your point but I don't think people mean it literally, at least not these days.

My mum always says God sparing us. She truly believes that if you don't say it you will be struck down. Or at least something will happen to stop you because you have no right to assume.

I stand corrected, still sounds old school to me though!

Lily, I think people say it without thinking about it. It's a way of reminding us to count our blessings and empathise.
But yes, when you think about the implied meaning it is odd.

Tippy, I'm sure that's true. Problem is with me, once I've thought about the actual meaning, it annoys me every time I hear it! I think it was when Madeleine McCann disappeared that people used it a lot, and I thought about it and thought HANG ON, that is really not right!

I thought it was a quote "there but for the grace of god go I".

If I remember correctly it was said by a priest of some kind, at an execution.

I have used it but only because it wraps a feeling up in such a short sentence. I could say sometging like " Well let's just be thsnkful that it's not happening to me because it could".... but it doesn't seem to flow as well. I'm an Agnostic too so I really don't need to use the term God.

Does anyone have any suggestions on a different turn of phrase? I'm pants with stuff like that.

I agree theologically it is crap. But I don't think most of the people who say it have really thought through what it means, and just intend to show a bit of empathy, and absence of judginess by saying "I know I could just as easily be in the same situation if stuff had worked out differently".

I don't think I've had anyone say "If I'm spared", though a Muslim colleague regularly said "InSha'Allah" (apologies for spelling...) meaning "in God's hands" every time we made a plan.

I don't mind the phrase at all , My interpretation is one that places no blame on an individual for their situation . I don't really think about the God part in it at all .

It certainly doesn't make me imagine a big man on a cloud pointing the finger and causing things to happen .

I don't mind it but that's because I see it as a comment on your own situation, not on theirs.

I'll tell you what I really hate...

Happy mummy, happy baby.

Now that's wrong entirely. It's disparaging to mothers of cross, colicky, refluxy babies, it's used as an excuse to defend any kind of choice you want to make and it's so reductive it makes my skin prickle with ire.

I am banning it in the new world order.

I just think it is saying "I enjoy God's grace, you don't".

Not the intention, but it's what it means. If anyone ever said it to or about me I would be pretty pissed off!!!! Even though it would be kindly meant!

Show of hands - yy to happy mummy etc. Hate it!

I think most people just mean "There but for sheer dumb luck go I", but have some vegue belief in God and believe that things are "meant" in some way they haven't thought through. But yes, it does mean "God has not made this bad thing happen to me, just to you" which is a horrible thing to believe.

I think it may be used more by people who don't believe in God at all. IT would be even worse if used by someone who believed in God (as a church-goer that might be why I hate it so much, as it implies something more than bad luck).

I would prefer "There but for the throw of the dice..."

the "but" doesn't mean the same as you would say "but" now - it's a kind of qualifying "but".

it means the same as "i go with the grace of God" but in old fashioned language.

I don't think that's true - it has always meant "it is only God's grace that keeps me from being in that same situation".

I don't think it would be used by someone who was a genuine atheist - but I also don't think it would be used by a Christian who had thought about it. Just by the kinds of people who put themselves down as CofE on forms and half-remember bits of Sunday School and have a vague superstitious idea of God.