In wishing that Members of the Taleban should be shot

[Alouiseg]

For the crimes against women that I'm currently reading about.

Our troops are over there whilst teenage girls are being flogged for walking out of a house with a man, a widow is being stoned for adultery. Because "in accordance with Islam they must be severely punished."


Why hav'nt we wiped these lunatic women haters off the face of the earth and why won't more followers of Islam publicly condemn them.

[BelleDameSansMerci]

Hmmm... They are in a country (assuming we're talking about Afghanistan) where the President's wife allegedly "prefers not to leave the house". The prevailing and long standing cultural attitude towards women in Afghanistan is shocking. I suspect many Afghan men have a measure of sympathy for the Taleban attitude towards women.

And, if I'm really going to jump in with both feet, I think the attitude towards women in Saudi Arabia and the UAE is pretty bloody disgusting too.

[Alouiseg]

Agreed. I might take a course in sniper rifalry and pick the lot of them off myself.

[BelleDameSansMerci]

[mumblechum]

It's not just Afghanistan. There was a prog on Radio 4 last night about Egypt, where if you dare to convert to Christianity you are in danger of being killed, physically and verbally abused. One man who was a Christian had had to take his daughter out of school because she was constantly being attacked for not being a Muslim. She never goes out of the house at all now

I have very little time for religion generally, and none whatsoever for Islam

[mumblechum]

Alouiseg, I'll be your spotter.

[daftpunk]

Completely agree with you

[AlisonDubois]

YADNBU...get rid of them all...using up valuable oxygen!

[Alouiseg]

Winching a team of Mnetters into deadly Afghanistan.

I'm armed with a magi mix blade and a cookie press.

Asylum for women and children is a great idea, but the poor women have got no means to leave the house let alone a country, landlocked by other tyrannical regimes.

It's about time the western Islamic leaders put the rest of their house in order or they should be accountable.

[Mowiol]

Mumblechum - I agree with your sentiments about religion.
I would go so far as to ban ALL religion. The Catholic Church has kept women downtrodden throughout the centuries. And it's still holding sway in developing countries. Keep 'em barefoot and pregnant.
No different to Islam really. Rigid Puritanical protestantism has done (and is still doing) the same thing and now we have a country like the USA where 80% of people believe in creationism and which also has an alarming number of fundamentalist Christians. I am not a student of the Q'uran but I believe that as with the Christian Bible it is far too easy for sects and cults to interpret any religious text the way they see fit.
I am repelled by dogma in any form be it Christian, Muslim or otherwise.
I'm prepared to be flamed.

[Heracles]

"Why hav'nt we wiped these lunatic women haters off the face of the earth"

Not sure if you've noticed, but they're proving reasonably adept at hiding...?

[Alouiseg]

I'm with you Mowiol, religion is the route of all problems.

We need to be getting to where these fuckers carry out their punishments. I think it's the religious ringleaders that are hanging out in caves, the religious law enforcers don't seem to be too much on the agenda.

So angry about it all really.

[Mowiol]

I find it much easier (as I advance towards a significant birthday - and no it's not 60!) to proclaim my atheism from the rooftops. Religion is indeed the opium of the masses. Long live Richard Dawkins - I love his pithy vindictiveness towards religion.

[matumble]

whilst i agree its terrible, who would you have kill them?

smallwhitecat, our armed forces are out there because we made a commitment, rightly or not we need to honour that commitment

[Alouiseg]

Well while our armed forces are out there perhaps they wouldn't mind picking off the evil women punishers for us, failing that dh has offered he was nearly in tears earlier reading about the punishments dished out to women.

I'm sick of the uk embracing all religions actually, we should refuse to kowtow to any of them, they can raise their own funds from their poor deluded followers and all follow uk law to the letter.

[WingDad]

The regime in Afghanistan towards women is atrocious, I've seen it myself.

One can't help but wonder where we would be without religion, but that's a whole different debate for another time!

YANBU in wanting Terry Taliban dead, believe me so do I; but the issue is the Taliban might as well be like the force in Star Wars, like you can't see it. A member of the Taliban instantly becomes a civilian once he drops his AK47 (which they often do, and then we're forced to give them aid because we can't prove their legitimacy).

There are issues with wanting to persecute those who abuse women, doing so would be incredibly detrimental to the development of NATO's presence there; it's been in their society for a long time you see.

[Alouiseg]

I'm not quite with you Wingdad, or I'm being a bit thick. Do Nato turn a blind eye because they've got long term plans for the region?

[WingDad]

Absolutely not, I have to say I worded it poorly so apologies (just got in from work!). There have been (and still are) issues with NATO coming along and wanting to change things, because then groups like the Taliban start saying, "Well, what gives you the right to bring democracy here?" and then they continue with their attacks in order to stop it.

What I'm saying is, the root of all the problems is the fact that what we see as wrong (i.e. lack of womens' rights) may be seen as perfectly normal to Afghanis etc.

I'm sorry if I'm making no sense, it's a poor excuse but I'm ever so tired!

[matumble]

so our armed forces (who aren't generally trained killers, just normal people) killing people whose beliefs we don't agree with sits well with you? it doesn't with me, but then i cant imagine feeling right executing people, cant imagine my husband would want to play judge, jury and/or executioner either. its one thing thinking it without ever having to do it, its another to suggest people you have never met should have execution written into their job description.

Yes the behaviour is wrong, Yes it needs dealing with but I don't think asking brave men and women, who are already willing to put their lives on the line, to just pick off a few while they're out there is any better to be honest.

[WingDad]

I don't really want to kick off a massive debate, so I'm sorry if it's not welcome in your thread, OP.

We're not in Afghanistan to shoot people or take lives, that just happens because, in basic terms, they start shooting first! Unfortunately not many see what real work HM Forces are doing in Afghan, with providing people with aid so that they don't have to resort to protection from the Taliban. We want to train the Afghan National Army so they can stand on their own two feet and deal with the situation themselves. There are all these initiatives in action so that Afghanistan has a positive future without the presence of war (which it has been riddled with in the past).

This is not easy and it's going to take time and, unfortunately, lives.

Every soldier, sailor and airman is trained to follow orders. The powers that be tell us where to go, and we go. There's no doubt in my mind that the job the NATO forces are doing out there is beneficial. That said, I can never quite describe the sadness I feel when I hear of another death of a serviceman.

[Alouiseg]

Wingdad, you are extremely welcome and knowledgeable from the sound of things.

I am very emotional after reading about the way women are punished over there and wish there was an easy solution.

[Alouiseg]

They certainly could but at least here it's not sanctioned by the govt.

[Alouiseg]

They have religious police who nobody questions who answer to nobody.

I was reading the Times this afternoon and the brutality of their punishments sickened me.

Its a nasty old world for lots of people especially women.