Idiot’s guide to the Palestine/Israel conflict anyone?

[4PawsGood]

I have googled, and in the past too, but everything is so long winded.

Anyone able to put together a three sentence summary? I really would like to understand what the background is.

Placemarking. I too have Googled but it seems it’s a conflict that started so long ago that there’s so much content and it’s hard to know whether a source is actually impartial

Me too!

Basically, Israel stole land from Palestine, kicking the Palestinians out. Palestinians are trying to keep hold of their land and rightly so. But Israel keeps bombing them and so the Palestinians are fighting back.

This might help.

And neither are willing to negotiate. I think the USA drew up a plan to be used as a kind of agreement but I believe Palestine didn't want to know.

Not the same but comparative - NI and England. Yet another bloody religious war.

This area is the cradle of civilization and has been fought over since before the Mongols.

It's really not simple and can't be made so.

You cannot put it into three sentences. There’s is thousands of years of history, and to skim over it would not do it justice.

www.vox.com/2018/11/20/18079996/israel-palestine-conflict-guide-explainer

There are some really good resources here. Take some time and do some reading about it.

Watch the first five minutes of Newsnight on Wed and then again yesterday. Both had short intros which outlined the conflict. The one on Wednesday's a very good intro.

The modern state of Israel was created in 1946/7 out of lands which were then Palestinian (although there is some historical disagreement)
Since that time there has been a slow and violent creep of more & more. land being acquired by Israel leaving the Palestinians dispossed.
Meddling by the West (largely in support of Israel), religious conflict and atrocities committed by both sides have entrenched things, sadly.

Jew here with Israeli relatives, so bias alert upfront.

It’s a difficult / huge question. I’d say - Following WW2 the state of Israel was founded to give Jews a homeland. That land was Palestinian, and the decision was a “top down” one by countries including Britain. It displaced Palestinian people who were living there. The two sides have lived uneasily ever since - there have been several full-scale wars over territory, and the situation now, I’d say, is Israel as a wealthy state with US backing and a huge military presence a) surrounded by neighbours who have its obliteration as their aim b) with a government that ranges from nationalistic to very very nationalistic - so a conflict flares up starting from either side (Palestinian protest or Israeli “resettlement” of Jews into Arab neighbourhoods, for example), and then it flares up like a tinderbox.

That’s as neutral as I can manage it, but I’m sure others will be along shortly.

Some (maybe not all) Jewish people that God gave them the land of Israel. Some (definitely not all) Jewish people think that God-given right trumps the rights of anyone else who happens to be living in the area they call Israel. The state of Israel (as it exists now) is in charge of the country and for decades has been reducing the land which Palestinians occupy.

It would be like people of, say, Scottish descent returning to Scotland, forming and controlling the government, and then taking over land and kicking people out of their homes because God gave them the land thousands of years ago and their right to live their overrides anyone else's.

Israel and Palestine have been fighting for decades. Israel formed over where Palestinians had claim to the land. There have been multiple attempts to reach a peace treaty but anything put before Palestine is rejected. Gaza launched rockets at Israel which is what started the latest fighting.

Religion kills

I'm confused too and want to understand I didn't want to derail the other thread asking. So was the whole of Israel once Palestine? When they say certain countries recognise Palestine as a state are they talking about land? Sorry if stupid questions.

Don't forget that Jews needed a safe homeland after the holocaust.

For context, I’m Palestinian by descent but I’m trying not to be biased. In my opinion what you have is a fundamental conflict of interest, where two sets of people have a reasonable claim to a piece of land.

Prior to 1948, what is now Israel was the British mandate of Palestine. Both Jews and Arabs lived there. Obviously during the Second World War, Jewish people suffered horrifically, and after the war there was a big movement towards giving the Jewish people their own homeland where they could go if something like they should ever happen again. Totally reasonable.

In 1948, Israel was established. In order to allow this, and for the new Jewish state to have a Jewish majority, lots of Arab people (including my family) were forced from their homes. This is why you have refugee camps full of Palestinians. This is why Palestinians want that land back. Also totally reasonable.

There is a state of Israel, and two Palestinian Territories, the West Bank and Gaza. These are called the “occupied territories”.

Jordan captured the West Bank in 1948, and Israel captured it back in a subsequent war in 1967. This is why it is said to be “occupied”. Similar with Egypt and Gaza.

Palestinians want their own state. Some hardline Palestinians (including Hamas, who rule in Gaza) want to abolish Israel and have the whole area as Palestine. Some hardline Israelis want Israel to include the Palestinian Territories. Most moderates think a 2 state solution of Israel and Palestine existing side by side is the way forward.

There is a highly contentious issue of settlements where Jewish Israelis (I specify as some Israelis are not Jewish, some Palestinians got Israeli citizenship) build homes on Palestinian land, which is seen as provocative by Palestinians. Most recently, some Jewish Israelis have laid claim to Palestinian homes in a neighbourhood called Sheikh Jarrah and Palestinians have been evicted. This has caused a lot of ill feeling to say the least and has sparked the latest conflict.

This is deliberately simplistic as requested. It’s a very complex conflict and sadly one which I don’t see ending any time soon.

@EssentialHummus

Jew here with Israeli relatives, so bias alert upfront.

It’s a difficult / huge question. I’d say - Following WW2 the state of Israel was founded to give Jews a homeland. That land was Palestinian, and the decision was a “top down” one by countries including Britain. It displaced Palestinian people who were living there. The two sides have lived uneasily ever since - there have been several full-scale wars over territory, and the situation now, I’d say, is Israel as a wealthy state with US backing and a huge military presence a) surrounded by neighbours who have its obliteration as their aim b) with a government that ranges from nationalistic to very very nationalistic - so a conflict flares up starting from either side (Palestinian protest or Israeli “resettlement” of Jews into Arab neighbourhoods, for example), and then it flares up like a tinderbox.

That’s as neutral as I can manage it, but I’m sure others will be along shortly.

I don’t think that’s biased and I hope your family is ok, you must be very worried

Gaza launched rockets at Israel which is what started the latest fighting

I thought it was the proposed forced removal by Israeli Jews of a further neighbourhood of Palestinians from their homes that created the current conflict. Chickens and eggs again. Please correct me if I am wrong.

This helped me OP.

@BigWoollyJumpers as far as I understand it - there are many things that caused the current ongoing conflict, but I was meaning the current bombardment that’s going on this week. Gaza launched the first rocket, I’m not saying that the conflict is their fault though. I do believe it very originally comes down to the Israeli occupation of the land that belonged to the Palestinians, but in this day and age you can’t just tell the Israelis to find a new home and leave Palestine (and similarly, Israel shouldn’t be removing anyone from their homes themselves).

You too slippery . I was reading your post and thought that if it was down to the two of us we’d sort it all in an afternoon and still have time for a nice lunch .

This is the difficulty (OP) - there is the actual conflict, which is difficult but not impossible to solve imo, but then on top of it you have generations of violence and revenge and ideology on both sides, and that makes it hard to focus on pragmatic solutions.

SlipperyDippery - great outline thanks, I struggle with understanding it all too, let’s hope one day - wwide-we can coexist in harmony

SlipperyDippery

Good summary.

Add to that accusations of news bias. BBC reported yesterday 7 dead in Israel, 63 in Palestine. All major news outlets focus on a 5 year old Israeli boy.

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9573265/Pictured-Israeli-boy-five-killed-Hamas-rocket-shrapnel.html

The current conflict started as the British dividend communities by religious beliefs and then stamped "Israel" onto a map.

(Very, very simplified... but as someone already pointed out it's on the same lines as Northern Ireland or India/ Pakistan...