What's your approach to learning about feminism?

[vesuvia]

I am curious about how we cultivate our ideas about feminism.

Perhaps you could consider any or all of the following in your response.

Has your exposure to feminism been

• Mostly through books?
• Mostly via the web?
• Television, radio or newspapers?
• Discussions with friends or family?
• Trade union meetings?
• Women's groups?
• Political debates?
• Serious academic study or bedside reading?
• Other? If so, what?

Does your partner actively encourage your feminist research and reading, and debate your feminism findings with you, including threads from this forum?

Do you discuss what you read or hear with other family and friends?

Do you have a particular friend or group of friends who you discuss feminist issues with? What issues do you agree or disagree on?

Has your approach changed over time?

[Ryoko]

I look into my heart, if my gut tells thats bullshit and sexist it probably is.

The only thing that has changed over time is that I gain life experience that lets me see things more and more as they really are.

[ElephantsAndMiasmas]

Are you doing a survey?

My exposure to feminism (if you can put it like that) was a combination of being brought up in a totally non-sexist household, somewhat isolated from sexist ways of thinking. My mum also bought me books and talked to me about women's history, although she now says I am more feminist than she is.

In terms of learning more about it I started (by accident initially ) on the internet, now I'm reading more books. I have been to some feminist events but that was a result rather than a cause of the way I think.

I do discuss things with family/some friends/my partner. Not all the things, not all the time (and I'm a secret MNer so that's out) but I'm frequently bringing up a feminist aspect to things. When I'm on a mission about something (e.g. rape anonymity thing) I tend to talk about it a lot more.

My feminist friends are incredibly precious to me, as is my partner who - despite the problems of being able to "ignore" sexism because of male privilege - does not have a sexist bone in his body, and 'gets it' just about all the time.

[lifeissweet]

I had a feminist mother - not in a big F kind of way, but she dressed me in the clothes my brother had outgrown and we had the same toys. She tried hard to bring my sister and I up with exactly the same opportunities, experiences and expectations as my brother.

I studied Politics at university and chose a module on feminism.

Now I read books, mainly, but also read things on t'internet.

I live on my own as a single mother, so don't have to worry about how my partner would respond.

I have feminist friends and we tend to discuss issues like employment rights for mothers, the 'pink' culture surrounding little girls (a constant source of hand-wringing and depression) and the patriachical structure of the economy which serves to keep women in their place and worships money over people.

I think I am becoming more aware and more angry with age (which I think is inevitable) I can remember as a teenager trying to argue that feminism is irrelevant these days. Do you ever feel like going back in time and wacking yourself round the head?

[ElephantsAndMiasmas]

I know what you mean, lifeissweet, I remember not even thinking about taking up the feminism module at university. Somehow it seemed dry and irrelevant compared to other things I was interested in. There's a ghostly whack making its way towards my 20 year old self right now!

[ISNT]

Just a quick answer if that's OK

Pretty non-sexist upbringing but not a feminist one either

Went to all-girls schools until 6th form and so did not feel limited there

Sixth form onwards - always said I was a feminist if people asked but not really with any clear ideas.

What made me sit up and take notice in terms of being treated in a sexist manner - mainly the low level sexual harrassment that you get all the bloody time when you're a young woman, the shouting, groping, badgering, and worse, all of that stuff made me really angry.

Reading in the news about the terrible things happening to women all over the world.

Then later on realising that I was being paid less than the men at work and my complaint would go nowhere as I was pg when I found out.

Then I came onto MN, and there was a thread about rape or something like that, and Dittany was there in full flow, and the rest is history

From that encounter I have been on here loads which has been my main source of conversation and discussion and information, I hope to go to the event in London in october and want to get more involved with stuff.

It's Dittany that turned me from a person with an idea that things weren't quite right, to a person who can happily chunter on about the patriachy and the male gaze and all sorts of things

So there you have it.

[foreverastudent]

I grew up thinking feminism was an ugly word. I thought they were all lesbian baby-killers.

But one of my uni courses had some feminist theory in it. Around the same time I was coming out of a violent relationship and started to see the connection between events in my (and my friends) lives that were explained by feminist writers.

So I started reading all the feminist books I could get a hold of and eventually set up a women's group to raise awareness of these issues.

Feminism is now my religion.

[tabouleh]

As RibenaBerry's thread has got to derailed, I decided to invite her over to here to discuss some books I've read recently.

RibenaBerry - I think that you will really enjoy The Equality Illusion and Living Dolls.

You were finding The Whole Women a bit tough going. I have The Female Eunuch from the library and it is challenging and thought provoking but I'm glad I read the other two first.

I think that it is useful to read current literature that you can immediately identify with and then start to investigate the historic texts.

[RibenaBerry]

Tabouleh - thank you. I am frankly a bit terrified by my own thread.

I'm going to order The Equality Illusion first I think. I have small kids, so I'm not necessarily the fastest reader so I think I'll do one at a time. Would love to discuss things with people on here as a I do.

On TFE, I tried it a few years ago and lost it a bit. As you know, I'm finding the same thing with TWW. Maybe if I go back to it after some other reading I will get on better, but at the moment I just find that going on about womb art seems a bit, well, abstract. I am very much a practical person and I would work from the practical down to issues like the number of words for womb, not the other way round.

[Blackduck]

RB Equality Illusion is an 'easy' read (I mean not too technical, it is NOT an easy read in other respects!) Reclaiming the F Word is also good - they both cover similar ground but in different ways. I like Greer but can find her, well, a bit strident, but I guess if she didn't go all out the trail wouldn't be blazed (whether you agree with everything she says or not...!

[Sakura]

from novels. I just read and read and read throughout my childhood, and I think the best literature and art, even those written by men, are transcendent. I think DOstoyevski and Stephen king have done a lot for women, for example. ANd people actually listen to them, because they're men . In fact I've always found the best male novelists, anyone truly brilliant, not to be sexist. It's the less brilliant writers that feel threatened by women and it shows in their work.
I was also aware of oppressive sexism everywhere around me, all the time and it just got worse and worse the older I got.

[Sakura]

I was really impressed with Stephen King's Dolores Clairbourne. Imagine a man tackling a novel about child molestation, a mother who killed her husband when she found out, then the novelist taking the woman's side and showing the world what it was like to be a woman in that situation. that's real talent, I think.

[jenny60]

Sexist upbringing; boys sat in the front of the car as of right and girls in the back and I remember being absolutely furious about this and even more furious that I couldn't do anything about it, especially as the boy in the front was a bully. But I was also encouraged to do well at school and go to university and that was my salvation. I see the world through gendered eyes, have done since I started reading feminist theory and history. I still read a lot and think more about it than ever really since I had dc. Have feminist friends and go to a feminist group, but lots of people in my life don't really get it (not dh thankfully).

[foreverastudent]

Sakura- what other male writers/books do you recommend? I never read books by men (ok maybe Bill Bryson) because I thought they couldn't possibly understand the female perspective. But I'd like to be proved wrong.

[jenny60]

Me too, despite my best efforts. Marriage is a tricky one. From a young age, I thought it was bizarre and not for me and I could never understand how anyone could go through the ceremonies attached to it. I did get married, for all sorts of reasons, though at the time I had reservations, not about dp, but about buying into the institution. I still do TBH, though we're in a happy and equal relationship. I didn't have a 'wedding' and there was no giving away, white dress stuff and there was no name change of course, still, I wonder ...

[ElephantsAndMiasmas]

Me too! Although I was thinking earlier - I think we're so used to the norm being women in competition with each other, that when you don't feel that, but just feel affection and pride in other women's achievements, you might wonder if you're gay? Does that sound mad? I mean, I get excited about meeting a fascinating, brilliant woman just as much as I get excited about meeting a fascinating, brilliant man. Which should be normal I suppose. But in fact you're so used to associating "admiration" with something that only men deserve, it makes you a bit confused?

I suppose what I mean is, maybe feminism makes us so much fonder of women that sometimes (used as we are to only admiring male qualities - which for straight women would be bound up with sexual attraction) we confuse our totally platonic feelings with loving ones?

[vesuvia]

Thanks for your responses.

ElephantsAndMiasmas wrote "Are you doing a survey?".
No, just trying to get some discussion started. My questions were just suggestions in case people wanted a bit of structure. It didn't occur to me it might look like a survey. .
Is your mum still as feminist these days or has she passed the torch to you now?

Growing up, my older sister was the biggest influence on my feminism. We would talk about the issues of the day, walking to and from school. She read lots of feminism books and passed them on to me. I still have all of them.

For the past four or five years I have done quite a lot of reading about women in general and feminism in particular at the Women's Library in London. Unfortunately, I as far as I know, it does not lend books. Whenever I visit the library, I have mixed feelings. On the one hand, I think wow what great books and I'm so lucky to be able to read whatever I like. On the other hand, my reading time always whizzes by and I feel disappointed and frustrated that I can't borrow any books to read at home. I'd borrow the whole library if I could! Anyway, it is a fantastic resource and I recommend it.

I was also really pleased to obtain a broadband Internet connection and I do a lot of web surfing about feminism. One has to be careful using the web because there is so much self-published material and almost no quality control out there and it's "reader beware".

lifeissweet, I talk to my feminist friends about exactly the same issues that you discuss with your friends. Do you find much agreement or do you argue with them? We mostly agree after a lot of interesting discussion. I never felt that feminism was irrelevant but I undertand how women can feel that way, and it is good to read that you "saw the light" - better late than never, eh?.

Sakura, you have made me curious about that Stephen King novel. I shall look for it and if I do read it in the near future, perhaps we can compare notes? Good writing is good writing. Quite a few reviews of "Memoirs of a Geisha" by Arthur Holden commented on how well he wrote as female characters, and they expressed surprise that the book had been written by a man.

foreverastudent wrote - "I grew up thinking feminism was an ugly word. I thought they were all lesbian baby-killers.".
Yes, all those anti-feminists out there do a very effective job with their propaganda.

[tabouleh]

vesuvia I didn't really answer your OP because I jumped in here with some suggestions for RibenaBerry.

My exposure to feminism has been:

TV (started with the BBC3 documentaries)

then mainly web (blogs and MN) and some books

Not really much discussion with friends and family as I am trying to make sure I have my facts/arguments in place first.

"Does your partner actively encourage your feminist research and reading, and debate your feminism findings with you, including threads from this forum?"

I wouldn't say "actively encourages" - but he is interested as long as every conversation is not about Feminism .

"Has your approach changed over time?" - well I pretty much thought Feminism had achieved its aims , it just wasn't in my radar. I am now on board with the "Equality Illusion" school of thought.

[Sakura]

Yes, I was very shocked that Memoirs of a Geisha turned out to be written by a man. Golding did a very good job indeed.

(The problem is he pissed off the Japanese with it (I live in Japan: DH hated the film Sayuri where Watanabe is made out to be some sort of paedo). The Japanese woman that Golding interviewed to get the info from was annoyed that he'd made the geisha world appear like some sort of sex trade when it wasn't actually like that. But then which reporter or novelist hasn't bent the truth? . I still think he did a good job writing life through a woman's perspective.)

Dostoevsky: just WOW at giving prostitutes a human face and writing about the despair of a young teen pushed into prostitution by her father to feed her younger siblings

Hmm...Madame Bovary: a woman driven to madness by the social constraints imposed upon her.

THere aren't that many, of course...

[Sakura]

swallowedaFly, I know exactly what you mean about the oppressive kitchen. That was my father's side. My mother broke out of it all and was very frowned upon.

[Tootiredforgodtyping]

I was taught feminist history by the rebel history teacher at my very sexist girls school ( only allowed textiles and cooking, no metal or woodwork) noly allowed to wear skirts...

My parents brought me up to believe i could do what ever I wanted to do...
With my daughter not buying her the pink toys, buying the multicoloured ones. Correcting my very sexist FIL in the comments he makes to her...

with my son ( which I think actually is more important) not making him conform to male stereotypes and teaching him that men and women are equal..