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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

"Teachers to tell children Gender Ideology is a contested belief"

187 replies

WarriorN · 14/05/2024 17:50

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2024/05/14/teachers-pupils-gender-ideology-trans-guidance/

Teachers will have to make clear that gender ideology is a “contested belief” rather than fact if they bring it up in lessons, Gillian Keegan will say later this week.
The Education Secretary is set to issue guidance on Thursday following criticism that some pupils were being taught that there were 72 genders.
Schools will not be told to hold lessons on gender ideologygy, which states that people can be born the wrong sex and that they can change their identity to the opposite sex or other categories such as non-binary.*
But if they do hold lessons on the issue, they must make it clear that it is a contested belief.
In other words, they must say that the “gender-critical” beliefef that there are just two biological sexes is also valid.*
The guidance - which will be out for consultation - will also order schools to show parents all classroom material to ensure they are comfortable with what is being taught.

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WarriorN · 14/05/2024 17:51

Apologies, bold fail.

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Ginnyweasleyswand · 14/05/2024 17:56

Didn't they already do a consultation on this? I wish they'd bloody hurry up and just tell schools what they can or can't do. This indecision helps no-one, least of all children

Schools cannot ignore Cass either - they are not medical professionals and should not make the decision to transition children.

WarriorN · 14/05/2024 17:58

They did a consultation on gender questioning children. Proposed guidelines.

This is RSE content I think. Proposals to go out for consultation before being brought in in sept hopefully.

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WarriorN · 14/05/2024 17:58

PSHE/ RSE

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WarriorN · 14/05/2024 17:59

RSHE in the article

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AReasonablePerson · 14/05/2024 17:59

What this also makes clear is the argument that this is "just like the days of section 28" holds absolutely no water at all. In those days homosexuality was not allowed to be promoted (talked about) in schools.

This is clear - they can teach there is such a thing as genderism, but they also have to teach that there is such a thing as non-genderism. It is the some people think this and some people think that approach. It is better.

WeMeetInFairIthilien · 14/05/2024 18:01

Well now, this sounds encouraging.

I'll be keeping a close eye on this on Thursday. I just know that DD's school (and Deputy Head) will love to hear this.

Ginnyweasleyswand · 14/05/2024 18:02

I don't know why it needs to be a consultation. Schools should not teach contested political beliefs without discussion of the fact they're contested (especially those beliefs without any scientific evidence backing them up). They should definitely not teach them as fact. They should also make RSE/ PHSE materials available to parents.

Pretty non-controversial and a 'consultation' just gives more delay until those schools who don't do either of the above are allowed to confuse (at best) vulnerable children.

MrsOvertonsWindow · 14/05/2024 18:03

"In other words, they must say that the "gender-critical "belief that there are just two biological sexes is also valid."*

It's not a belief - it's a bloody fact. Biology, science, factual, evidenced. Only women give birth since forever.
There comes a time when we need to stop pandering to those pushing this delusion at children - that sex change is possible. 😡

But this is progress

WarriorN · 14/05/2024 18:05

It is because the main argument trans activist teachers and teaching institutions have used is comparing GC arguments with section 28.

It brings reality back; you can body mod as much as you want, you're still male / female. Which is vital for all sorts of things, not least defining same sex attraction.

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WarriorN · 14/05/2024 18:06

(Response to AReasonablePerson)

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EasternStandard · 14/05/2024 18:06

MrsOvertonsWindow · 14/05/2024 18:03

"In other words, they must say that the "gender-critical "belief that there are just two biological sexes is also valid."*

It's not a belief - it's a bloody fact. Biology, science, factual, evidenced. Only women give birth since forever.
There comes a time when we need to stop pandering to those pushing this delusion at children - that sex change is possible. 😡

But this is progress

Edited

Agree with all this

WarriorN · 14/05/2024 18:09

MrsOvertonsWindow · 14/05/2024 18:03

"In other words, they must say that the "gender-critical "belief that there are just two biological sexes is also valid."*

It's not a belief - it's a bloody fact. Biology, science, factual, evidenced. Only women give birth since forever.
There comes a time when we need to stop pandering to those pushing this delusion at children - that sex change is possible. 😡

But this is progress

Edited

Yes.

Gawd, some poor teaching sods are going to need the argument spelt out for them. So many "believe."

But at least their pupils can now give damn good reasoning as to why it's bs.

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ScrollingLeaves · 14/05/2024 18:13

“But if they do hold lessons on the issue, they must make it clear that it is a contested belief.
In other words, they must say that the“gender-critical” beliefef that there are just two biological sexes is also valid.”

In other words………. that is too sotto voce.

Who will hear those other words?

Just saying that’sgender identity it is a contested belief is not the same as saying that….

to believe there are just two sexes,

no one is born in the wrong body,

gender as in stereotypical masculine or feminine presentation or activities is a simply a social matter,

and

there is no proof humans have an inborn ‘gender identity’ as such

……..is a belief protected in law.

Schools told to presume children can’t change their gender

Long-awaited trans guidance for teachers says they do not have to use preferred pronouns of pupils who want to socially transition

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2023/12/18/schools-told-presume-children-cannot-change-gender-trans/

WarriorN · 14/05/2024 18:18

I've always struggled with the forstater judgement used in contexts such as these.

Child safeguarding is not a belief.

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ResisterRex · 14/05/2024 18:19

...aaaand what's happening with KSCIE?

Will this be mere "guidance"? Will unions vote not to follow it?

Etc.

ResisterRex · 14/05/2024 18:20

WarriorN · 14/05/2024 18:18

I've always struggled with the forstater judgement used in contexts such as these.

Child safeguarding is not a belief.

Star
Ginnyweasleyswand · 14/05/2024 18:21

ResisterRex · 14/05/2024 18:19

...aaaand what's happening with KSCIE?

Will this be mere "guidance"? Will unions vote not to follow it?

Etc.

Yes, this. It could quite easily be put in as an amendment to KCSIE - that will be amended by Sept as it is every year.

The amendments won't have to be that great as (and I'm paraphrasing here) expecting children to cope with concept that are beyond their developmental ability is already listed as emotional abuse.

Just add in that you can't lie that contested beliefs are fact. And parents get to see RSE resources. Done.

All this fucking around. Keegan is useless.

duc748 · 14/05/2024 18:26

MrsOvertonsWindow · 14/05/2024 18:03

"In other words, they must say that the "gender-critical "belief that there are just two biological sexes is also valid."*

It's not a belief - it's a bloody fact. Biology, science, factual, evidenced. Only women give birth since forever.
There comes a time when we need to stop pandering to those pushing this delusion at children - that sex change is possible. 😡

But this is progress

Edited

So we have the poorly-worded Equality Act to thank for GC views being characterised as 'beliefs' (which of course, they aren't), thus enabling gender enthusiasts to portray the situation as two opposing 'beliefs', more like Protestantism and Catholicism?

Give 'em an inch.... words matter.

Xiaoxiong · 14/05/2024 19:09

Fantastic news. Have just sent this to our head.

Hopefully this will become statutory as previously he said that the guidance from December was only a draft. They need to really get a move on if these things are to be finalised before the end of the school year to allow schools to update their guidance and PSHE curricula before September.

FlakyPoet · 14/05/2024 20:24

.

HipTightOnions · 14/05/2024 21:05

... aaaand what's happening with KSCIE?

KCSIE for 2024 will undergo "technical changes only".

Consultation/call for evidence for Sept 2025 is here:

https://consult.education.gov.uk/safeguarding-strategy-systemic-improvement-team/safeguarding-children-in-schools-and-colleges/

PTSDBarbiegirl · 14/05/2024 21:11

Exactly, not a fact but a belief.
Homosexuality is a fact. Please let's not allow LGB to be confused with TQI+..... 1 is a scientific occurrence 1 is a belief. Children (especially those realising they may be gay) need to know the difference.

Xiaoxiong · 14/05/2024 21:20

Oh interesting @HipTightOnions - I will write in about para 203 which Stonewall lobbied for insertion. This para is what our school used to write their policy saying parents don't need to be informed if a child makes a disclosure to a teacher that they are trans (with implication of school supporting social transition at school). Fine for a child who is LGB but Para 203 teams being gay, lesbian and bisexual with being trans and after the Cass Report we know that is no longer appropriate: a child should never be socially transitioned at school unless with clinical advice. Social transition is not a neutral act and there is a risk of a school to clinic pipeline.

WarriorN · 14/05/2024 21:35

Attempted a post about that particular paragraph (phone died) but yes that needs to be raised, a lot.

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