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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

TRA on tribunal panel for school gender identity cass

85 replies

ARoombaOfOnesOwn · 20/06/2022 11:44

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10930909/Trans-rights-activist-judge-case-teaching-assistant-sacked-gender-identity-lessons.html

The Mail is referring to them - Edward Lord - as a trans rights activist. Lawyers for the teacher involved in the case would like them removed. They will be well-known to MNers.

OP posts:
Thread gallery
6
ARoombaOfOnesOwn · 20/06/2022 11:45

Case, not Cass as in Cass report.

OP posts:
achillestoes · 20/06/2022 11:45

He needs to be removed immediately.

Artichokeleaves · 20/06/2022 11:47

.... with that man's record, I would be very interested in an explanation of why he is an appropriate person to be involved in a case regarding a child.

Hagiography · 20/06/2022 11:54

Edward Lord, partner of Meg John Barker, who has co authored books with current director of WPATH Dr Walter Pierre Boumann, who has overseen the latest 'standards of care' version 8, which includes the chapter on 'Eunuchs'.

Just joining up some dots.

ARoombaOfOnesOwn · 20/06/2022 12:54

Sex Matters piece here:
sex-matters.org/posts/updates/edward-lord/

OP posts:
FannyCann · 20/06/2022 13:24

Lord is a trustee of the LGBT Foundation.
Which is overseeing the NHS Rainbow Badge project, embedding rainbows and stonewall law throughout the NHS.

NHS England is funding this.

TRA on tribunal panel for school gender identity cass
TRA on tribunal panel for school gender identity cass
TRA on tribunal panel for school gender identity cass
FannyCann · 20/06/2022 13:27

One hospital has attracted attention with its rainbow crossings.

TRA on tribunal panel for school gender identity cass
TRA on tribunal panel for school gender identity cass
MrsOvertonsWindow · 20/06/2022 13:48

An ethical person would automatically disbar themselves in the light of their pronouncement about and attitudes towards women. Very telling about Lord's desperation to be involved.

Discovereads · 20/06/2022 13:59

I don’t see an issue. They’re going to be one of several advisors on a tribunal panel advising the tribunal judge. It’s the judge who will make the decision. And it is only fair to have a diverse panel of advisors when assessing whether the teacher was unfairly dismissed or not for transphobic comments. To demand Lord be removed from the panel because they’re non-binary is a bit like demanding the removal of anyone who is gay/lesbian from a tribunal panel where a judge is assessing whether an employee was unfairly dismissed for homophobic comments. Or likewise a minority tribunal panel member in a case where an employee has been dismissed for racist comments. You can’t go around engineering tribunal panels to only have the advisors you think will agree with the employee.
www.judiciary.uk/about-the-judiciary/who-are-the-judiciary/judicial-roles/tribunals/fee-paid-judiciary-page-1-2/

donquixotedelamancha · 20/06/2022 14:09

To demand Lord be removed from the panel because they’re non-binary is a bit like demanding the removal of anyone who is gay/lesbian from a tribunal panel

Saying you are non-binary is not the same as being gay. Even so, that is nothing to do with why Lord should recuse himself or be removed.

He should not be involved because he's a politician who has repeatedly and publicly campaigned against women's rights to single sex spaces and removed them during political office.

The protected characteristic in this case is religious belief. To clarify your analogy- it would be like Anne Widecome being a magistrate advising on a case where the plaintiff was allegedly sacked for being gay.

MrsOvertonsWindow · 20/06/2022 14:17

This reply has been withdrawn

This message has been withdrawn at the poster's request

ColdTowel · 20/06/2022 14:22

FannyCann · 20/06/2022 13:24

Lord is a trustee of the LGBT Foundation.
Which is overseeing the NHS Rainbow Badge project, embedding rainbows and stonewall law throughout the NHS.

NHS England is funding this.

I can't see him on the list of trustees; do you have a link?

lgbt.foundation/trustees

TastefulRainbowUnicorn · 20/06/2022 14:27

Jesus Christ, that man shouldn't be involved in this case or any other employment law case involving a woman. He has no respect for women's privacy or dignity or personhood.

Discovereads · 20/06/2022 14:27

donquixotedelamancha · 20/06/2022 14:09

To demand Lord be removed from the panel because they’re non-binary is a bit like demanding the removal of anyone who is gay/lesbian from a tribunal panel

Saying you are non-binary is not the same as being gay. Even so, that is nothing to do with why Lord should recuse himself or be removed.

He should not be involved because he's a politician who has repeatedly and publicly campaigned against women's rights to single sex spaces and removed them during political office.

The protected characteristic in this case is religious belief. To clarify your analogy- it would be like Anne Widecome being a magistrate advising on a case where the plaintiff was allegedly sacked for being gay.

Not really because Anne Widdecombe doesn’t have any judicial training or qualifications like Edward Lord does. He’s been working as a justice of the peace since 2002 specialising in civil liberties cases. His personal beliefs shouldn’t come into it. Every member of the judiciary has personal beliefs, but they are trained and professionally bound to adhere to the actual law.

TastefulRainbowUnicorn · 20/06/2022 14:27

Hopefully his refusal to recuse himself will cast overall doubt on his fitness to be a magistrate.

Abitofalark · 20/06/2022 14:29

For anyone wondering, as I am, what this is about, the headline on the Daily Mail article sums it up :

"Trans rights activist is named on judging panel that will hear case of a Christian teaching assistant sacked for speaking out against gender identity lessons at primary schools"

The pastoral assistant was sacked after she made private facebook posts (one a petition), believing her son (9) to be too young for sex education and gender identity at his C of E primary school.

What is the 'judging panel'?
It's the employment tribunal system - not, as I thought, professional teaching disciplinary bodies.
She lost her case of unfair dismissal on grounds of religious belief at the employment tribunal and is appealing against that decision to the Employment Appeal Tribunal (EAT) on a point of law.

The EAT comprises a High Court judge assisted by two lay members with experience of the employer's and employee's side of the workplace. Mr Lord apparently has become one of the lay members in the employment tribunal system and the Christian Legal Centre has asked for him to be removed from the hearing of this appeal.

The Christian Legal Centre website has some information about the employment tribunal decision:
[In part: ]
"... the Tribunal has concluded that Mrs Higgs’s dismissal... was not related to the Christian beliefs she expressed on social media, such as her opposition to sex education in primary schools or to the idea of gender fluidity.
Rather, her dismissal “was the result of a genuine belief on the part of the School that she had committed gross misconduct”...

“Although not stated as clearly or simply as this, the act of which we concluded Mrs Higgs was accused and eventually found guilty was posting items on Facebook that might reasonably lead people who read her posts to conclude that she was homophobic and transphobic...”

The Tribunal has acknowledged that Mrs Higgs’s Christian beliefs on sexual ethics do not equate to homophobia or transphobia. "...she told us she “loved everyone” and there was no reason to believe she would behave towards any person in a way such as to deliberately and gratuitously upset or offend them.”

However, the Tribunal agreed with the School’s position that it was concerned that readers of her Facebook posts would see them as homophobic and transphobic rather than merely an expression of Christian beliefs “in a temperate and rational way.”

donquixotedelamancha · 20/06/2022 14:43

Not really because Anne Widdecombe doesn’t have any judicial training or qualifications like Edward Lord does.

Yes, obviously I meant if she was in that position.

He’s been working as a justice of the peace since 2002 specialising in civil liberties cases. His personal beliefs shouldn’t come into it. Every member of the judiciary has personal beliefs, but they are trained and professionally bound to adhere to the actual law.

Of course they shouldn't but it is still unheard of to have a judge or magistrate sit on a case where they have campaigned in such a high profile and sustained way against a plaintif's protected characteristic. It's why recusal exists: to protect the appearence of impartiality.

Discovereads · 20/06/2022 15:06

campaigned in such a high profile and sustained way against a plaintif's protected characteristic
? But he’s not ever campaigned against the Christian religion? That’s the teachers case is it not? That teaching you can change gender is against her Christian religious beliefs?

jellyfrizz · 20/06/2022 15:52

Plenty of info on Lord here: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/3512126-Update-on-City-of-London-Gender-Consultation or AS his name.

jellyfrizz · 20/06/2022 16:03

Sorry - their name.

Artichokeleaves · 20/06/2022 16:44

I make no comment at all on whether the woman in question is right or wrong or whether her dismissal was right or wrong; I have no knowing of the evidence of the case.

But yes, Lord has on multiple occasions actively campaigned for a very partisan political position that is against the rights and equality of women as a sex class, and particularly against their rights to express beliefs in reality, biology and their own sex based words and needs, or simply to express anything at all that is not exactly in keeping with and compliant with his personal and quite extreme TQ+ views. It's as about as inappropriate as asking Posie Parker to take a leading role in deciding a TQ+ access to women's spaces case, or Boris Johnson to lead an ethics committee. It's just plain unhelpful.

He is absolutely not impartial or appropriate to be participating in this, and I would think if the tribunal finds against her she will have legal recourse to overturn the ruling on his background alone.

Imnobody4 · 20/06/2022 16:57

It's an interesting dilemma - IF Lord is capable of doing his job fairly and impartially despite his record of outspoken lobbying then surely he'll be forced to recognise someone with views completely opposite to him should be able to do their job fairly and impartially.
Seems me he is obliged to find in her favour.

Does anyone know who the other lay member is?

Abitofalark · 20/06/2022 17:48

The application re Mr Lord will be heard by Mrs Justice Eady (President of the EAT) this week.

NOTE the C of E is intervening. The plot thickens.

EMPLOYMENT APPEAL TRIBUNAL
7 Rolls Buildings, Fetter Lane, LONDON, EC4A 1NL
CAUSE LIST
WEDNESDAY 22 JUNE 2022
Court 31
Before: THE HONOURABLE MRS JUSTICE EADY DBE (PRESIDENT)
At 10:30 am
EA-2020-000896-JOJ Mrs K Higgs v 1) Farmor's School
2) Archbishops' Council of the Church of England (Intervenor)
(RECUSAL APPLICATION - IN PERSON

FannyCann · 20/06/2022 18:34

@ColdTowel
I got the information from the SexMatters link up thread. Maybe he is no longer a trustee?

TRA on tribunal panel for school gender identity cass
Igmum · 20/06/2022 18:48

Absolutely he should recuse himself - or they should appoint a counter-advisor - Maya Forstrater perhaps? I cannot imagine Lord being impartial or even fair on this issue.