Article on AGP by Lorelei

[TinselAngel]

This is a really excellent article, in which AGP males, in their own words, describe much of the behaviour outlined in the trans widows threads over the last 5 years.

Many people don't believe trans widows, maybe they'll believe the men themselves? (nb Mods this article is based on source material old enough that the men in it did not identify as women as far as I'm aware)

loreleihatpin.substack.com/p/autogynephilia?s=r

It's interesting to read that article in the context of recent attempts by GC "allies" to destigmatise AGP and to rebrand it as a harmless "inverted sexuality" or a "target location error".

This needs to be read by MPs, the entire NHS staff and everyone in Education!

I don't know what you can say without getting deleted, but ye gods, that is absolutely revolting to read. It's so insulting to women to pretend that we have something in common with men like this.

obligatory i am not generalising, not all men, not all transwomen, not all AGPs, footnote.

Thank you for sharing this more widely Tinsel it's an important one that as many people as possible should read. Well written, well explained, uncritical and true.

Women as a sex class should not be redefined into a male fantasy that benefits males only. It's misogyny on an unbelievable scale. The really scary thing is that we live in a country and in a time where the establishment doesn't really see much of a problem with this.

I have this book but the article is great as the book - being in-depth and an academic tome - is quite heavy-going.

I like how the article ends:

"Men’s sexual desires are rewriting women,
Men’s sexual desires are rewriting women’s rights,
Men’s sexual desires are dominating the conversation."

Good to remember when threads get noticed and derailed.

@ResisterRex

I have this book but the article is great as the book - being in-depth and an academic tome - is quite heavy-going.

I like how the article ends:

"Men’s sexual desires are rewriting women,
Men’s sexual desires are rewriting women’s rights,
Men’s sexual desires are dominating the conversation."

Good to remember when threads get noticed and derailed.

What the fuck have I just read ?! I agree with how this ends and hits the nail on the head. These people also need their hard drives checking. The poor wife who was as put , a stage prop . Disgusting

Well that was... insightful
Menstruation and sexism as a turn on, it's just so odd, and now I wonder if a lot of men think women are turned on by these things too? Maybe the gender pay gap is an attempt to woo the female sex

I will ask in front of a bunch of ladies if I can shop dressed as a lady or if transvestites are welcome to shop here.

A lot of these patterns of behaviour are of course familiar. But this one really stood out. Because the behaviour is the same, but the currently acceptable societal response is completely different.

Take the Monsoon incident yesterday for example, where the instigator got a free dress as compensation for being asked to wait until the women in the changing rooms had finished.

Or the ironically named actuallesbians subreddit, which is dominated by lesbians of the penis persuasion, but still gets regular "I'm trans am I welcome to post here?" posts. And of course they are told they are welcome - anyone who didn't say that would get deleted and banned. All of the subreddits that are nominally supposed to be for women are the same way.

The interesting thing here is that the person doing it isn't necessarily seeking the reward of being "validated." He seems to want the opposite, in fact. How does this kind of behaviour escalate when they don't get the pushback that they're seeking out?

Just wondering if we can have a vote
How many women fantasies about being tie up, dismembered, knifed in the stomach and gang raped 🤬
If these men think that what being a woman is , I'm lost for words.
Read bits out to my partner he's disgusted, he asked are these the same people who want access to female spaces , my reply was yes.

The poor wife who was as put , a stage prop . Disgusting

Trans widows talk of this a lot

www.transwidowsvoices.org/post/alisons-story-uncoupling

Thank you for the link. I normally just lurk on these boards and gain info off some fabulous posters.
But felt I needed to comment.

The problem is only people will only “know” what they want to know. It should be obvious after Jimmy Savile and his ilk just how vulnerable women and children can be to men’s kinks and fetishes but instead as per usual people’s denial prevents any action from being taken that might safeguard women and children.

That is because of men’s constant need to dominate women who speak out and woman’s need to pretend they are as good as 100% safe from men in this world.

Thank you. That ties in with a thread I was reading on twitter of a transwidow whose DH's obsession went from a bit of fun in underwear to blowing the family budget on surveillance equipment, to internet porn to starring in his own porn over 14 years.

It always needs to move onwards.

I do hope all those women who think giving up women only spaces is kind read exactly how that “ kindness” is repaid by men who think fantasising about being raped and mutilated is what us women love to do in the odd moments when we are not relishing every moment of our periods and blowing bubblegum bubbles with our girl chums.

Wow!

@Melroses

Thank you. That ties in with a thread I was reading on twitter of a transwidow whose DH's obsession went from a bit of fun in underwear to blowing the family budget on surveillance equipment, to internet porn to starring in his own porn over 14 years.

It always needs to move onwards.

Have you got a link to that, Melroses?

Obviously a key focus on a website like this is going to be about how all AGP men are awful and what they make their wives go through, but I've seen this through a different POV.

I indirectly knew of a youngish heterosexual man (teenager/early twenties) who went through the full transition process, destroyed all family relationships in the process, but he thought the feelings he had were gender dysphoria. I don't know what position they're in now a few years later, but I fully expect regret will feature soon. I reckon if he knew it was AGP he probably wouldn't have transitioned. He was a confused and harmless individual, I wouldn't call him perverted (as seems to be a stereotypical view). I think about him being sold a lie, and the relationships broken due to it.

My feelings on the matter probably differ to most on this site, but I think it AGP needs to be publicised (not suppressed) as it will probably led a lot of men to realise that they have AGP and not gender dysphoria, and lead to a lot less damage and regret.

The trouble with the activism and suppression is that it leads anyone questioning their gender to seek the transition route, when it probably isn't suitable for a lot of cases.

@Pennox

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk guidelines.

So I still can't talk about men with AGP?

It's not women that are surpressing it PP, it's the MN admin.

What strikes me about AGP is that people who have it get a thrill because being seen as a woman is transgressive. It is, to them, being 'less than' a man and they get off on the humiliation of it. It certainly shows one kind of harm that gender stereotypes can cause - the whole lipstick, bubblegum lacy lingerie type thing that may or may not feature in the day to day lives of women. If it wasn't seen as shocking, 'sissy', 'effeminate', ie 'other' to the stereotypes of male experience, then it wouldn't turn them on. And that is terrifying - the way in which these men see women, just as props and fantasy fodder. Do they have any concept of a woman as a human being?

I thought I knew enough to not be shocked. I was wrong.

Do they have any concept of a woman as a human being?

Did you see this quote? "To me, being a woman is to be a vulva between the thighs, nothing more."

Before I left Reddit I noticed this sort of behaviour in groups which used to be typically female only (like actuallesbians, hair and makeup, 2xxchromosomes and many more).
There is an undeniable and obvious link with porn (check the profiles of many of the transwomen posting in these subs), yet they are still welcomed and rewarded by so many women.
It’s the same on fb. Any TW posting in these sorts of groups result in so many women going out of their way to congratulate them and forgo their spaces - why?? I don’t understand it.