Anyone watch 'The Ascent of Woman' earlier?

[TensionWheelsCoolHeels]

I missed the 1st 25 mins but it looked really interesting. It's 4 parts, so 3 more to follow.

[PlaysWellWithOthers]

It was fascinating, if anger inducing.

[rogueantimatter]

Yes! Amazing programme. Usually I'm angry when I think about the way women are treated in patriarchal societies but last night's programme saddened me.

I didn't know that the greeks didn't extend democracy to women - so they weren't the founders of democracy then.

[unweavedrainbow]

Oh goodness, if by "democracy" you mean "universal suffrage" (ie voting by everyone regardless of gender, race or income) then that idea is very modern. If you just include white women (and we really, really shouldn't) then round about a 100/150 years or so. If we include WOC significantly less than that
"Demos" means people and for a long time "people" meant "men"-or rather free men of a certain age with a certain income.

[rogueantimatter]

Sorry for sloppy terminology.

The concept of democracy (these days) is used pretty much interchangeably with universal suffrage. Or the right of everyone involved in the issue in question to have a vote on it. Thank you for explaining that demos means men, rather than the people! So Demographics, understood to mean 'to do with the population' originally meant 'to do with men'! Women weren't counted because they don't count?!

Very much looking forward to the next programme.

I particularly liked the Turkish figure of the goddess - whose name I've forgotten (I'm nackered by 9pm) and the Egyptian statue of a happy couple.

[dementedDementor]

I'm watching this on iPlayer now. Thanks for this thread, it reminded me I meant to watch it!

[dementedDementor]

I started watching but I'm having an awful day anyway and it was making me angry so I've had to switch off. I'll try and finish tomorrow!

[rogueantimatter]

Aww. Hope you have a better day tomorrow.

Night night.

[dementedDementor]

Thank you rogue

[rosy71]

I watched it on the iplayer last night. I found it very interesting - I had no idea about the veil being worn in Ancient Greece.

[boldlygoingsomewhere]

I watched it last night and thought it was great. Definitely made me feel very angry though especially when they were reading through the laws and discussing the status of women in Athens.

I did wonder if that is where some of the misogyny in Christianity came from as it was massively influenced by Greek philosophy in the early days. However, I think women played a large role in early Christianity and could be leaders. The problem must have come when it became an 'official' religion and a tool of government.

[PlaysWellWithOthers]

The problem started with Paul of Tarsus and his cultural and personal misogyny, but that's probably a discussion for another time.

[rogueantimatter]

Ooh! Who was Paul of Tarsus please?

[dementedDementor]

The Assyrian rules about women and the veil really reminded me of The Handmaid's Tale.

Neither (wives) of (seigniors) nor (widows) nor (Assyrian women) who go out on the street may have their heads uncovered. The daughters of a seignior...whether it is a shawl or a robe or a mantle, must veil themselves...When they go out on the street alone, they must veil themselves. A concubine who goes out on the street with her mistress must veil herself. A sacred prostitute whom a man married must veil herself on the street, but one whom a man did not marry must have her head uncovered on the street; she must not veil herself. A harlot must not veil herself; her head must be uncovered.

[boldlygoingsomewhere]

Was Paul of Tarsus formerly Saul? He of the miraculous roadside conversion? His writings in the bible are very misogynistic.

Yes, to Handmaid's Tale - so many echoes.

[dementedDementor]

I remember a documentary about the church (possibly the church and sex?) Claimed that Paul wasn't as misogynistic as we think. Apparently he does mention a few women in high regard who have the same position in the church as men and there's a few quotes about men and women being equal in Christ.

I can't remember how that was squared with his other teachings. Perhaps it's to do with context, but I suppose we'll never know the truth and sadly it doesn't matter really as the overriding message that has been taken is that women are inferior to men.