Angry Men and Premenstrual Women

[GirlWithTheLionHeart]

Sorry, didn't know how to title this.

A lot of women are 'told' to take various herbal remedies, pills, teas etc for PMS to stop them being irritable etc. However, I've noticed that angry men aren't told to do the same, even though they are probably more damaging to society, women and children.

Any thoughts on this? I just read this article and I quote:

"If you've worked with angry male clients, you can understand why. These men are generally highly reluctant clients, who are often in your office only because they've gotten "the ultimatum" from their wives or girlfriends or bosses or sometimes court judges: "Get therapy for your anger or get out / you're fired / you'll go to jail." Many, considered by everyone who knows them to have an "anger problem," arrive in your office convinced that they don' t have an anger problem: the real problem is their stupid coworkers, annoying girlfriends, demanding spouses, spoiled kids, or unfair probation officers. However, they arrive at your office with a shotgun at their backs, so to speak, and know they have no choice. They hate the entire situation because it makes them feel powerless."

This actually really riles me on a personal level as I've had to give my partner the ultimatum over his reactions and anger.

[StillFrigginRexManningDay]

Thats quite interesting and I agree that women are expected to modify their moods. Excepting cases of severe pmt/s of course.

[GirlWithTheLionHeart]

Exactly. It seems women aren't allowed to be angry/irritable etc even though it's due to a real biological reason, and should remain happy "smile love, it might never happen!'
Whereas most angry men are brought up being allowed to be angry because they're boys/men and that's ok.

[FarEastMovement]

I think you need to differentiate between men's anger - which can be a psychological thing, and women's 'PMT' which can be hormonal.

The hormonal aspect is regular/cyclical whereas the man's is only brought about because he may have a specific mental issue/short temper i.e. not all men are angry!

If there were herbal remedies to help cure men with anger problems I have no doubt they would sell them! I don't think it is an issue of they have them but aren't using them because of societal bias!

[GirlWithTheLionHeart]

Definitely not saying all men are angry, and there are obviously angry women out there.

I actually disagree, and do doubt there would be remedies out there!

[GirlWithTheLionHeart]

Also, we cannot say all angry men have psychological problems, maybe some of them are actually just arses who throw their weight about and shout people down to get their own way

[TheWanderingUterus]

Something that interests me is how much of PMT etc may be culturally constructed and socialised. If we grow up being told that it is expected that we will go a little mad at puberty, menopause and once a month as an adult woman, how much of that is socialised into our reaction.

Also whether it is an allowable release of pent up anger, if we have to behave in a more repressed manner for the other three weeks, calm, not aggressive etc. Then for a few days we can be angry in this precise and controlled period, aggressive etc without being threatening or challenging. We can be dismissed on the grounds of hormones so no notice needs to be taken of our anger.

Ties in to older ideas of woman as physically and mentally weaker and more unstable than a man due to her physiology.

I also wonder about its links to subconscious fears or wishes about pregnancy (am I /aren't i) and also irritation about the oncoming physical discomfort and mess/ fear of leaking/ smell which may affect plans etc.

Hope some of that makes sense, I am supposed to be working on something related to this question and only popped on MN for a minute.

[scaevola]

I think you're right about the permanently angry people.

I'm not sure that PMS is the right comparison though. For you are talking about a population of people who do not have enduring anger issues, but have (hormonally triggered) changes on a regular cycle. It's also possible that the afflicted person has greater self-awareness of mood when living with such fluctuations, compared to someone in a permanent state. The interventions which are appropriate for dealing with those are not going to be the same as dealing with other forms of anger.

[FarEastMovement]

Yes, absolutely, I'm just saying it's linked to the mind of the man whereas for the woman, PMT is hormonal so I think in that respect a bit easier to find a medicinal remedy for. You can't often take a pill to affect psychological mood without pretty serious side effects.

[GirlWithTheLionHeart]

I guess I wasn't even thinking of the reason for the anger/irritability tbh.

I was looking at it as, when women are angry/irritable they should swallow a pill/drink this tea whereas when men are angry, society doesn't ask anything of them.

[FarEastMovement]

But who on earth is saying that? Hormonal is MORE justified because it is brought upon by a hormonal release in your bodies.

Psychological means some kind of difficulty in upbringing or traumatic experience which again is probably less the person's fault but the point is that herbal remedies can probably balance out hormonal changes whereas if there existed a pill that could diffuse anger I don't think it would be restricted to men with anger issues.

My point is I don't think this is an example of society skewing things in favour of men. It is not only men who can develop psychological anger issues whereas PMT/PMS is a medically proven circumstance.

And anyway surely one could argue the skew is in the other direction since playing devil's advocate I could say "we men have it so hard, no one cares about our moods whereas women have all this herbal remedy and medicine to help them"

[FarEastMovement]

Oh dear God. Leaving this thread now since everyone here seems wedded to being a victim.

[GirlWithTheLionHeart]

Yes Buffy.

Maybe I want to be a miserable snappy arse for a few days, thank you. Stuff your evening primrose and St. John's wart

[GirlWithTheLionHeart]

There just seems to be a lot of marketing in 'fixing' women when we are on our periods, and I don't see a lot of that for men when they are angry a lot of the time.

My partner has been waiting for a referral for weeks now to speak to someone.

My views are prob all skewed anyway.

[FarEastMovement]

"relying on a superficial reading"

"women's negative emotions are wrong and should be fixed, men's aren't and don't need intervention"

Hmmmmm.

[FarEastMovement]

I simply quoted you. I've not insulted you in the slightest. But yes, please do continue to throw incorrect accusations around.

Maybe you're really leaving because you're getting utterly shown up.

[PetulaGordino]

your reaction is very confusing fareastmovement. are you not used to people disagreeing with you?

[PetulaGordino]

the problem seems to be that

women's anger = hormonal = medicate!

men's anger = natural = difficult to get any kind of useful intervention

[KittiesInsane]

'defuse', Buffy. Unless you want to spread the irritation more widely which is sounding pretty good to me today.

[KittiesInsane]

Grr. I am now irrationally angry with my creepy wee strikeout lines.