Shona Rhimes

[WhyTheCagedBirdTweets]

I loved this and just wanted to share it with people that might like it too.

"Yes, it is hard out there. But hard is relative. I come from a middle-class family, my parents are academics. I was born after the Civil Rights movement, I was a toddler during the women's movement, I live in the United States of America, all of which means I am allowed to own my freedom, my rights, my voice and my uterus.

Im a black woman every day, and Im not confused about that. Im not worried about that. I dont need to have a discussion with you about how I feel as a black woman, because I dont feel disempowered as a black woman."

It's so strong and positive. I wish we could see more of this.

[gincamparidryvermouth]

I don't feel disempowered as a black woman

So... what about all the black women who do feel disempowered?

You see strong and positive, I see "I'm alright Jack."

[WhyTheCagedBirdTweets]

How do you mean. I had not thought of it like that?

[IScreamForIceCream]

Her name is Shonda.

[WhyTheCagedBirdTweets]

Sorry, yes. Shonda.

[rootypig]

This is just selection bias. Shonda Rimes is an incredibly rich, famous, successful woman. Good for her - but you could go round the world asking rich, successful women if they think their gender has held them back and you wouldn't learn much about the reality of gender inequality.

[WhyTheCagedBirdTweets]

Do you mean that individual opinions or experiences aren't realistic or do you mean rich and successful people?

[SevenZarkSeven]

I don't understand how she can juxtaposition "I am allowed to own.... my own uterus" with "I live in the United States of America".

I don't know who she is and I'm glad she feels great and everything, but I don't think she sounds terribly well informed.

[SevenZarkSeven]

I kind of get where she's coming from with the don't ask me for my opinion as a black woman I'm an individual and that doesn't define me type stuff though. I guess she's just speaking for herself rather than saying that she has no interest in issues affecting other people.

For e.g. if someone asked me something about my job "as a woman" I'd be a bit narked because I'd think, you shouldn't be noticing that foremost about me and putting it front and centre as it's not relevant to what we're talking about. Sort of thing. Maybe that's where she was coming from.

I still think she's gone a bit overboard with her "yay usa" sentiment without checking out the facts but they like that sort of thing over there don't they

[WhyTheCagedBirdTweets]

I can't imagine anyone asking Vince Gilligan what Breaking Bad meant for him as a white man.

They do

[rootypig]

OP I mean that the fact she is rich and famous is itself an excellent indication that for her, her gender and race haven't been insurmountable obstacles. Very few black women are rich and famous. Leaving those barometers of success unexamined for a moment, her experience is not typical.

That said, I think it would be valuable if she talked about why that is the case, rather than denying the existence of gender or race chauvinism. Though she implicitly acknowledges the role of class.

I live in the United States of America, all of which means I am allowed to own my freedom, my rights, my voice and my uterus.

She should have said, I live in the United States of America, and I'm rich, and I have never wanted to say or do anything that the government finds disagreeable.

[WhyTheCagedBirdTweets]

Yes, I see rooty. I'm unsure though, if you're also saying that poverty is a greater oppressor than race or gender.

[rootypig]

I wasn't saying that - though race is inextricably linked with poverty in the United States.

kff.org/other/state-indicator/poverty-rate-by-raceethnicity/

[gincamparidryvermouth]

How do you mean

What do you think I mean?

[rootypig]

Gender is more difficult to establish, on the surface it is not a powerful factor
kff.org/other/state-indicator/adult-poverty-rate-by-gender/

But this data doesn't examine resource distribution within the family unit - where often boy children fare better than girl children, and men better than women.

[WhyTheCagedBirdTweets]

Im just a bit confused. If her experience is invalidated by being rich, does that not mean that being a black woman must be proportionally less important than being rich? If so, being poor must be more important than race or gender (from an oppression POV).

[WhyTheCagedBirdTweets]

Those stats, BTW, are remarkable. 45% in Alabama!!

[rootypig]

It's not that her experience is invalidated by her being rich. It's that her experience is that of a rich woman and most women, and certainly most black women, are not rich.

Being poor, being black, and being female, are all in relationship with each other. It doesn't make sense to discuss them in comparative terms.

My point about Ms Rimes's wealth and the US government is simply that in the US, money buys most things, including contraception and health care more generally. It makes no sense to speak of freedom in the US - in more substantive terms, at all - but in material terms, without talking about individual wealth.

[rootypig]

Yes, the statistics are deeply disturbing.

[WhyTheCagedBirdTweets]

No, I'm sorry. I'm not getting it at all; it still seems to me that you're saying that being rich shields you from gender and race oppression.

[SevenZarkSeven]

These things intersect.
Various things act against a person statistically. These include things like sex, race, class (wealth), disability and so on. The more things they have the harder it becomes to succeed. Just because some people with one or more of these succeed doesn't negate the fact that statistically they are a disadvantage.

I am glad for her that she feels great but her success doesn't mean that there being born a black female in the US is not generally going to be a disadvantage. Similarly the fact that there are many black disadvantaged women does not negate this woman's experience.

I still think the fact that she seems to think she is allowed to make decisions about her own uterus shows that she is ill-informed though. Unless I suppose she would never have an abortion / try to access contraception under certain circs in which case I take it back

[SevenZarkSeven]

Being wealthy can shield you from lots of things. And confer many advantages.

I don't know if this woman was always wealthy though or not so not keen to comment on that really.

[SevenZarkSeven]

Also the disadvantages conferred by different things differ don't they, in how they manifest themselves. They're not comparable.

The disadvantages conferred by being female are tangibly different to the disadvantages coferred by being poor (although most of the world's poor are female which is no accident). How the disadvantage manifests will vary by where you are as well.

But e.g. being rich won't protect you from street harrassment / sexual assault if you're female, what will protect you is being male, irrespective of wealth. Wealth might however mitigate the sex differential in career earnings due to being able to afford a top notch education and the opportunities to go with it.

Sorry rambling now think I'd better go to bed

I just can't get past that uterus comment really.

[WhyTheCagedBirdTweets]

OK. I see that they intersect. But the experiences of a rich black woman are completely different to the experience s of a poor one, so she can only speak as a rich person. I guess its always easy to succeed if you're rich. Its never easy if you're poor and harder still if you're a woman and black.

Do you think that that is a self fulfillling prophecy? If you expect to have to work harder youbreact to that? Depending on character you are either more resolute or perhaps never try?

[rootypig]

She is absolutely entitled to speak about her experiences. But her statements are so sweeping, to my ear they negate those of other, less fortunate (black) women.

To be clear, I don't think she succeeded because she was born rich - though she may have. Her parents clearly gave her an education and plenty of self belief. She has succeeded as most people do, by the serendipitous combination of many circumstances, including hard work. But the fact of her success means that being a black woman has not been an obstacle to HER success. Or she wouldn't be successful!

[cailindana]

I don't object to what Shonda Rimes said at all. She doesn't see her race or gender as being an issue for her and if that's her experience then, great. It only becomes a problem if other people then say "Look at Shonda Rimes, she doesn't think her race or gender are a problem, so what are other women complaining about?" One woman doesn't speak for all women. It's as simple as that.

What I would question, in fact, is what you said CagedBird:

It's so strong and positive. I wish we could see more of this.

I may have it wrong, but what I read from this is "I wish women would stop complaining they have it hard and be more positive, like SR is." Is that what you meant?