Supporting abortion to term.

(677 Posts)
VegansTasteBetter Fri 27-Jul-12 20:01:04

Asking this question in feminism because, 1. I don't want a pro/against bunfight and 2 because I have only ever seen this comment made by feminists. *

I have seen the comment made that someone would support an abortion up until term for any reason (so in theory just because they changed their mind would be acceptable I guess).

If you take this stance is it because you feel to decide a cut off date for abortions would be to choose an arbitrary date in a pregnancy and that we need legally to have free access to abortions... but actually if your mate said, "just found out I am 37 weeks pregnant really don't want it, going for an abortion" you would be horrified and because you know it isn't likely to ever happen

or

if in the above scenario would you happily (assuming it were legal) take your friend down to the clinic to get an abortion because you belive the mother's choice trumps the fetus/babies right to life?

I'm prochoice but I have a real difficulty with people saying that it's acceptable for any reason up till term. And in the above scenario (if it were legal) I'd support my friend's right to demand to be induced early for her mental health and to give the baby up for adoption but not for an abortion.

* disclaimer: I am a feminist but don't support this view

VegansTasteBetter Fri 27-Jul-12 20:18:29

I can understand that might be an abhorrent idea to some.

LeB0F Fri 27-Jul-12 20:20:24

It is not really an argument grounded in practical reality, but I absolutely support the right of a woman to end a pregnancy at any point. If the fetus is viable and can be supported to stay alive, then medically and ethically that is what should happen. But outside the woman's body.

avenueone Fri 27-Jul-12 20:22:31

It was when a friend had a still born baby it was discussed and I am sure she said she couldn't register the birth because he had died before 24 weeks? sorry if I am wrong. When I was pregnant and I sure I asked about this too as I def. recall celebrating the 24 week mark.

Mintyy Fri 27-Jul-12 20:22:56

Are you saying women should be able to demand a c section or induction prior to term then boffy?

VegansTasteBetter Fri 27-Jul-12 20:23:43

oh I see what you mean now avenue, sorry I took it wrong

Women have been given late abortions for 'disabilities' as mild as cleft palate. I support abortion to term for any reason because any other stance is disabilist IMO.

LeB0F Fri 27-Jul-12 20:28:48

Yes, if they don't want the baby or to be pregnant anymore, Mintyy. But I don't think it would realistically happen very often. I imagine that for the tiny number of women who might request it (and let's remember that safe uncomplicated access to abortions as soon as needed is the best way to avoid this situation), there could often be valid mental health objections, or physical ones re. the risk to the woman undergoing the procedure vs 'hanging on'. But I still think it is in principle a valid argument.

EclecticShock Fri 27-Jul-12 20:28:53

It seems to be a very complex area and not one I have thought through in any great detail. I don't feel comfortable with abortion after 12 weeks personally, however it varies for women. I also don't feel comfortable with a woman's right being superior to the child's after 24 weeks, as they can live separately to the mother generally at this age. In the case of severe disability... It really depends in the individual situation. It's all very complicated...

I recently discovered on here that women can refuse internal examinations etc even if this could result in their child dying. Still can't get my head around this... Not sure there is any easy answer. There is obviously also the point that legal abortion up to full term irrespective of disability could cause children to be aborted due to their gender, which again I don't agree with. I wouldn't think it was any different than infanticide which occurs in china for example.

I hope I haven't offended anyone, just trying to think through it.

Mintyy Fri 27-Jul-12 20:31:29

Well I suppose I agree with it in principle, but not on any sort of moral level. Its not the baby's fault that its mother is a woman.

EclecticShock Fri 27-Jul-12 20:33:33

Meant to say, I would prefer women and babies after 24 weeks to have equal rights, not babies to have more rights than women.

Margerykemp Fri 27-Jul-12 20:34:45

I remember an episode of ER which touched on this issue.

The woman was I think 30+ weeks, maybe 35/36.

She came in with an abdominal stab wound. The docs thought it was self-inflected but she denied this.

They said the knife had punctured the uterus and unless she was c-sectioned the fetus would die. She refused the treatment. The OB refused to perform it against her will as she was 'of sound mind'.

She naturally delivered a stillbirth a few hours later.

Then a court order comes through allowing the op.

In the UK would you support doing forced c-sections on women, if it was medically for the fetus's benefit but against the mum's wishes?

I know I would not.

I would not support abortion to term for 'any reason', for me it would have to be because the woman had made that decision. They are different - look at China.

Cassettetapeandpencil Fri 27-Jul-12 20:38:25

I don't agree with that at all.

The very idea of abortion of a baby that is so close to birth and life is abhorrent. Why would it need to be left so late?

Lucyellensmum99 Fri 27-Jul-12 20:42:13

no one has the right to take the life of another human being, unless it is to prevent suffering, its not a feminist issue. If it is, i could never be a feminist

Shallishanti Fri 27-Jul-12 20:42:21

isn't ER set in the US?
I think they have a very different legal situation there, I think women have been prosecuted for using alcohol in pg, as damaging the fetus.

avenueone Fri 27-Jul-12 20:42:34

In the UK would you support doing forced c-sections on women, if it was medically for the fetus's benefit but against the mum's wishes?

what a good question.....

I guess not, I would not support a forced section. I have never thought of that before, as ever being an issue but it must come up sometimes.

LeB0F Fri 27-Jul-12 20:42:44

Good point, LRD, I hadn't looked at it from that perspective.

EclecticShock Fri 27-Jul-12 20:43:48

I'm not comfortable with forcing c section or babies dying but c section is. It life or death? Surely that argument is a minority anyway? You can't cover all eventualities. I would think its rare for a woman to refuse intervention that could help their child live, unless they are defined as mentally unstable.

Lucyellensmum99 Fri 27-Jul-12 20:44:26

Margery - i absolutely would support it if it was simply against the mothers wishes, at that stage - tough, if birth of the child was detrimental to the mothers health then i woudnt. Its a no brainer

EclecticShock Fri 27-Jul-12 20:44:56

Isn't life or death... That should say. The detriment to the mother would be less than to the baby?

It's just a thing that terrifies me, LeBof. I was also thinking of a very sad story I heard a while back about a woman whose abusive husband put huge pressure on her to terminate until very late on.

The right to choose sometimes means the right to be allowed or supported to continue with a pregnancy and for me, being a feminist is as much about that right as the right to abort, it has to be, and I think focussing just on women who decide to abort is part of the reason the debate gets so bogged down in guilt-tripping women or presenting 'right to choose' as heartless.

But I digress.

Shallishanti Fri 27-Jul-12 20:45:18

here (the UK) a woman cannot be forced to have a c section or any other procedure even when her own or babies life is in danger- only if court rules she is not of sound mind

Mintyy Fri 27-Jul-12 20:45:30

I could be wrong but I think op means "for any reason chosen/given by the mother" not "for any reason" full stop.

And if so LRD's comment is beside the point.

EclecticShock Fri 27-Jul-12 20:46:22

Why is the law in uk and us so different? Or should I do some research?

mintyy - ok, just thought it was important to say.

eclectic - I think because the US is, by and large, more religious?

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