Some light feminist ideal society escapism books

[AnnieLobeseder]

I'm reading a series at the moment called the Earthsong trilogy, which starts with The Year the Horses Came.

It's nothing deep, it's set in post-ice-age Europe, with Goddess-worshipping tribes of peaceful folk. Sex is about pleasure for everyone, PIV is seen as incidental to the rest of sex, women are honoured no matter what their size or shape, the society is matriarchal..... all very lovely and idealistic.

Then some nasty patriarchal warrior nomads come along and spoil everything .

The books probably don't have too much basis in reality; I doubt a society has ever existed in which women have truly enjoyed complete equality.

But I'm certainly enjoying reading them and imagining it was so. If you'd like a little light escapism with some lovely images of how life should be, I highly recommend them.

[ecclesvet]

"Goddess-worshipping ... women are honoured no matter what their size or shape ... the society is matriarchal"

Doesn't sound much like equality.

[AnnieLobeseder]

Equal in that although women are nominally 'in charge', men are not oppressed in any way like women are under our current patriarchy.

It's just a work of fiction, I'm only suggesting it, you don't have to read or like it.

[CardgamesFTW]

Sounds interesting and a relief after all the 50 shades talk on the site, thanks Annie! Not really asking for spoilers but do the books end in a tragic or hopeful way?

[ecclesvet]

Equality = neither gender in charge, nominal or otherwise.

[AnnieLobeseder]

eccles, like I said, just recommending a book, I'm not interested in arguing definitions of equality on this thread.

Cardgames - I'm mid-way through book 2 so I don't know yet, but since it's based on history, we all know it doesn't end well in the long term.

[GoodButNotOutstanding]

Thanks for the recommendation, I've just downloaded it so I'm looking forward to reading it.

[AnnieLobeseder]

There's such a good line in it which has stuck with me. This lovely society has no concept of rape, and when she hears about it, a woman says, "But why would a man take something as beautiful as his penis and use it as a club?"

Why indeed.

[Helxi]

"Equal in that although women are nominally 'in charge', men are not oppressed in any way like women are under our current patriarchy."

It's certainly a work of fiction if the author thinks that one well-defined group having all the power is likely to result in anything resembling social equality.

As for men realizing the joys of non-PIV sex and not daring to have sexual preferences... and no doubt all the 'patriarchal' (pro-PIV?) men are rapists.

[AnnieLobeseder]

Yup on both counts, Helxi. It is indeed fiction, and yes, the big bad men are indeed all rapists. Have you read it?

Did I say anything about the men not having sexual preferences? And PIV does happen, it's just not seen as the ultimate aim of any sexual encounter, like it is in our society. After years of being sexually active, but not partaking in PIV, the main character nearly dies laughing when she is declared a virgin by the 'baddies' (after they have to explain what a virgin is). A feminist dream, no? I though taking the emphasis off PIV was a major aim of radical feminism.

I am happy to join in a critical analysis of the books, but surely it only makes sense to do so with people who have actually read it? I'm finding it a pleasant bit of light reading, but I don't love it quite so much that I'm going to go to great debating lengths to persuade folk to read it. I don't think it was written to be a ground-breaking piece of feminist prose.

[blackcurrants]

Thanks for the recommendation, Annie, I'm after something to read on the bus. I'll check it out. :)

[Helxi]

"...the big bad men are indeed all rapists. Have you read it?"

No. It's just that RadFem tropes are about as subtle as a needle in the eye.

"Did I say anything about the men not having sexual preferences? And PIV does happen, it's just not seen as the ultimate aim of any sexual encounter, like it is in our society. After years of being sexually active, but not partaking in PIV, the main character nearly dies laughing when she is declared a virgin by the 'baddies' (after they have to explain what a virgin is). A feminist dream, no? I though taking the emphasis off PIV was a major aim of radical feminism."

PIV, I suggest, from the majority of male perspective(s) most of the time, is the ultimate goal for hetrosexual men. Which given the biological function of the penis isn't a wholly unreasonable objective for a hetrosexual male to hold. And no, the patriarchy is not responsible for this particular facet of male sexual desire.

So, while "...taking the emphasis off PIV..." may be in accordance with RadFem philosophy it is nonetheless a suppression of a major component of male sexuality. This is not the equalizing of sexual relationships, but the exchange of one form of gender-biased sexual fascism for another.

Not that any of this is incongruous with RadFem concepts of "complete equality" everything being "all very lovely and idealistic"!

[yellowraincoat]

Thanks for the recommendation.

Ignore the nay-sayers, some people just want to jump on every little thing.

Maybe we could have a feminist book suggestion thread - not theory or whatever, but books that could be enjoyed by feminists without them wanting to tear their hair out as a lovely maiden simpers after her man?

[yellowraincoat]

Helxi, the OP already said this thread wasn't about analysis.

If you want to discuss equality and so on, start your own thread.

[CardgamesFTW]

"Maybe we could have a feminist book suggestion thread - not theory or whatever, but books that could be enjoyed by feminists without them wanting to tear their hair out as a lovely maiden simpers after her man?"

Yes please.
And it's crazy that it's so difficult to find any fantasy/scifi/whatever stuff in which women are not oppressed. Freedom from patriarchy, that's my ultimate fantasy, for sure.

[yellowraincoat]

Shall open it immediately.

[itsthequietones]

Great idea Yellowraincoat. I've been looking for feminist fiction but haven't come across any - bit of a half-hearted attempt really though. I'm really interested in feminist theory, but I'm just not in the right place to read it at them moment.

[rosy71]

I've picked up books from this series on more than one occasion and wondered what they're like. I think I might try the first one now. Thanks for the recommendation!

[Earthymama]

Can I recommend Starhawk?

I won't say it isn't polemic but it's really inspiring and idealistic.
(Tell you a secret, it changed my life!)

I would also recommend Marge Piercy but the theme was light-hearted and Woman on the Edge of Time certainly doesn't fit that descrption!

[AnnieLobeseder]

If anyone wants another book with a strong female lead, Elizabeth Moon's Serrano Legacy and Remnant Population are both very good.

[AnnieLobeseder]

Oh, those are both sci fi; I should have said.

[Hullygully]

yy Marge Piercy. Love her.

Will get Earthsong.

[Whatmeworry]

For a counter to Earthsong, Harry Harrison's "East of Eden" paints a green living, bio-engineering matriarchal society that is far less pleasant, with males kept in pens and allowed out to mate once a year.

(Hmmm...probably sounds very pleasant to some of our more xtreme sisters :o ).

But then they are dinosaurs....

[Hullygully]

ds is very keen on HH...maybe I should have a look at them!

[Whatmeworry]

Never mind HH - for some sci fi satire of Great-Britain-as-we-would-like-to-remember-it, set in the 25th century, the Space Captain Smith trilogy by Toby Frost is very funny - the men are inept, the women are strong, the aliens are dudes and there is a lot of tea and crap puns. DS put me onto it, its almost as good as Ptatchett.