Mumsnet Talk

hello, Ive been posting mostly in Relationships and AIBU so far. I have started threads recently which started off as being about; 'Women who get on better with men' and 'the messages within fairytales'. Also been posting in a thread about the 'Relationship' board being full of misandry.

The cumulative effect of these have lead me to the shocking realisation that some women have misogynistic views. I always thought I was pretty much apathetic and my views about womens rights were middle of the roadish. But I think,actually I might be a feminist! If Im not, then I want to be please.

Im nearly 40; am I too old? will I get run out of town for being the most bimbling/unread/foot in mouth 40 year old born again feminist? I thought people realised this about themselves in their 20s? I was too busy saboutaging fox hunts in my 20s to be thinking about women.

So, how did your femisinist POVs evolve?

Mine began very early in life because I'm the DD of a very independent, 'can do' DM. So I've taken it as a given that I'm equal to anyone, dependent on no-one and have the same life-chances as anyone else. I find women that don't share my approach a little baffling but tolerable. However, I really worry about girls growing up today who define success as 'get a boob job' and 'marry a footballer' (my shorthand). Not sure I measure up to any official test of feminist credentials as there seems to be a wide range of views out there, not all of which I agree with. Don't like the cliched terms, for example... 'misandry', 'patriarchy', 'misogyny'... think human behaviour is more complex than one word allows.

It's never too late to see the light

I was also introduced to the concept of feminism at a very young age, grew up reading the likes of Cythia Heimel.
Now I'm older, my perceptions are changing and I think a lot of the stuff I read when I was younger was less about empowering women and more about the patriarchy trying to sell a concept of feminism that suited the norms.
So I am now ploughing my way through "The Essential Feminist Reader" and 'To Be Real' edited by Rebecca Walker.
The feminism board here has certainly been very eye-opening.

I grew up in a country where women are routinely heads of state. However, mysogney still existed but was a bit easier to see and name. Nobody laughed at me, for example when I was 12 and pointed out that the president of the student body at my school had always been a male.

I find the UK shockingly sexist and things that horrify me (page 3 etc) are just treated as routine.

I went straight from a great, progressive girl's school-which really did instill in me a belief that I could be anything - to an engineering degree course at uni, one of only a handfull of girls. It was a real wake-up call. I was shocked at the casual misogyny.

In my yearbook entry the "most likely to become" section read "militant feminist". Over the years (I'm pushing 40 too) I've mellowed, and now feel its more important to ensure "feminine" traits, interests, careers, etc are just as valued as "male" ones, rather than scorned or derided. Whereas years ago I thought the way forward was to try to be more like a man, iyswim.

Been a feminist ever since I can remember. The internet is a great tool for feminism!

Ah..its good to hear from you all

BeeBaw I am an engineer too. The casual misogyny is shocking.It hasdefinitely played a part in me focusing in on my feminist tendencies.

I remember reading about Eco-Feminism whilst I was at uni and that really resonated with me

I read a lot of popular feminist literature in my late teens, and I've always considered myself a feminist. I wasn't hugely 'active' as a feminist though. In my student days I was more concerned with animal rights activism and then moved on to human rights activism. Though I would still write letters/contact MPs/make complaints about things that were troubling from a feminist perspective.

I have, however, quite suddenly dropped almost everything other than my work in order to read a massive list of feminist literature and spend hours browsing feminist blogs and what have you on the internet, attempting to 'catch up' with the latest stuff and revise the older stuff.

The reason for this, I suspect, is because I have a daughter who is four years old; from the moment she was born, it struck me that she is growing up in a very different world to the one I grew up in. She has fewer choices, has more limitations placed on her, by institutions, by marketers, by manufacturers, by society, all because of her sex. I became incensed by it; I started to look around and realise how much, for women, is going backwards instead of forwards. I suspect, in my twenties, I thought, like many others did, that things were still moving forward for women, and it was just a question of keeping the momentum going. But actually, it's far more of a battle than that. Looking around me, at the media, at everything, I just see misogyny everywhere, and I find it heart-breaking and angry-making.

MoChan I really relate to your concerns-I am a lone parent to 2 dds

I hadnt really thought about things moving backwards, but you are right about how women are portrayed/presented in the media for example. I think its young girls with SUCH a misunderstanding of what it means to be 'a strong women' to be free/independant etc? I am quite frightened about raising daughters at times

Hiya Bejeez, I don't think there is a time-limit on feminism. In fact I think that Mochan's story is quite common. I have certainly seen a lot of posters say that having children has really made them see society and its values in a different way.
I think I would have always identified as a feminist just because I never saw anything but lies in the explanations I was given growing up about "differences" between the sexes and never was conventionally "feminine". However I was not really very savvy about lots of feminist thinking nor theory. My lurking on this board has been an education. I think I have learnt more here than in any of the books I have read about feminism in the past.
So welcome. I don't post much, but read lots. I was reading the thread you mention yesterday and remember your posts. From them I suspect you are going to love this section.

I always considered myself a feminist, but I just didn't realise quite how bad things were, partly because I was in many ways unaffected (I experienced some problems when I first joined the workforce, for example, but I soon began to co-run my own company, which was therefore not a sexist place to be). But there are so many ways in which things now are worse than they used to be. Totally depressing. I've just turned 39, by the way, Bejeezus.

Tonight, I'm here to re-set my brain before bed after reading the Bognor Stag Do thread in AIBU

I had a baby and was shocked at how my life, body, career prospects, general outlook, etc, etc, etc were expected to change overnight but my husband pretty much got to carry on the same (albeit with slightly less sleep ).

I started to read a few books by famous feminists and realised that a lot of my self esteem was wrapped up in my appearance in the eyes of men. I recognised my father as a misogynist and saw that my own views were coloured by that and for the first time understood that I had accepted bad treatment from various men in my life because I had justified their behaviour and not questioned it when I should have.

Now I try to think more deeply about situations around me and am aware of a nasty undertone of misogyny in our wider culture, I am more likely to stand up for my rights and those of others. I challenge attitudes rather than laugh along at "jokes" for example, in the hope that it will encourage others to feel more confident doing so.

Bejeezus, welcome. No you certainly are not too old. I am 52 and always have been and always will be a feminist (and proud of it). I come to MN because I am the only one in my area so it gives me people to talk to who are likeminded and understand my thoughts.

thanks MrsClown

sensitivity -kind of related to what you are saying- since seperating from my husband, I have had a shocking revelation; that SO many people really DO think you'need aman',should be in a relationship/married. Ive never felt this. I was very happy as a single person before I met my husband, Im happy now (well, getting there!) and my daydreams of my future dont feature romantic relationships. Until becoming a divorced person, I never realised so many people held this view. I am regularly asked how Iwill manage on my own and reassured that I wil meet someone else.

I think I probably always have held feminist views. I just didnt realise that other people don't! So, I didnt realise how important it is.

I think I am going to credit my dad for this (although he would have no clue that he has feminist leanings!) He has always always encouraged me to be independant and adventurous and possitively discouraged me from settling down. I realise that in itself isnt feminist, but it has probably been my platform

You can settle down and still be a feminist, you just have to marry another one

There is no time limit on seeing the light. I feel very lucky to have been raised by feminist parents, I think it made my life a lot easier as I didn't have to start from scratch IYSWIM, there was always books and ideas etc available for me, I never experienced my feminism as something that isolated me or made me different until I was old enough to argue my point effectively. I think it probably is harder if you have to go through that "am I mental to think X not Y?" stage and I admire people who have the strength of mind to question the status quo off their own backs.

so it gives me people to talk to who are likeminded and understand my thoughts

I have realised how important this is too

Ilive in an inner city area which is a bit crime ridden and not very 'aesthetically pleasing'! Alot of myfriends are a bit wondorous as to why I stay here. Its a very left/liberal/independant area with anarchistic tendencies. Its so comfortable to be amongst people who hold the same fundamental values dear.

You can settle down and still be a feminist, you just have to marry another one

Yeah- I really didnt meanit to sound like thats what I meant (whilst also realising it did!)

I saw alot of my girl-friends devoting alot of time and energy indating boys/men and talking about it and beautifying and bickering about it etc etc whereas I was steered away from that I think and my values at a young age were different???? Im not really sure what Imtrying to say! I thinkinmy social situation, in my life as a young girl,my dads attitude wasimportant inme not becoming too concerned with 'whatmen thoughtof me'

Still not quite sure whether I belong here - normally isms of all kind make me a bit queasy.

I mostly got interested in feminism due to having daughters and being nauseated by the sparkly pink thing, and also due to experiencing and getting annoyed by sexism in the work place (which I was blissfully unaware of in my teens and early 20ies)

Talk about 'the patriarchy' makes me glaze over, and I don't like it when feminism is taken by some to address only women's issues, when it's actually both men and women who are being disadvantaged by sexism in society. Also, by making it just a woman's issue you stop some men from reading/thinking/talking about it, which I feel is counterproductive

Radical feminism, and some of its features such as transphobia are seriously putting me off, and I found this subsection of mumsnet quite scary for a while.

I guess it's a continuum and I'm on the more moderate part of it, but it's a topic close to my heart.

Radical feminism, and some of its features such as transphobia are seriously putting me off

whats this?

Transphobia is a silencing term used to dismiss those who question the illogical arguments around transactivism (not trans people - transactivists - the kind who get people's accounts closed on Facebook, or who demand that speakers be banned from conferences).
It is used to criticise those who wonder what the implications of legislation around trans are for women.

It's a really rotten word to use. It's used when women talk about periods or childbirth in spaces where trans women are present. It's just tiresome, really.

I know many transwomen who don't react in this way, who are capable of sensible conversations. It is a specific group of people. This is a letter by a transwoman to Paris Lees who has said some really upsetting things. transscribe.wordpress.com/2011/04/19/rape-is-not-a-metaphor-an-open-letter-to-paris-lees/

There are some links here

I have a daughter, and I don't like the idea that her female identity is being legislated out of existence. It makes it so that being a woman is a choice, which implies that any prejudice one suffers due to being female is due to one's choice.

TBE - I meant arguments like that of Julie Bindel, calling it a "silencing term" basically is just silencing those who object being told that they've no right to feel like they feel.

Nobody is saying that people can't feel like they feel.

thanks TBE and WW I will follow those links

I interested that this is an issue;
the implications of legislation around trans are for women

and I never heard of transactivism
(too much to read and not enough time!)

the only experience I have (which is pretty trivial and may not be wholly relevant) was being in a club with a friend around when I was about 25. There were a lot of transvestites/ transexuals (?) and I felt uncomfortable that they used the womens toilets. So I suppose I did feel my identity was challenged in a small way

Also, whilst we were waiting for a taxi outside the club, a car with 3 TV/TS stopped and asked if we wanted a lift. I didnt recognise them as anyone we had been talking to and so declined. My friend was cross and we had an arguement about it, her point being that they were no threat to us. In my mind, they were men and I would not get into a car with 3 strange men. (Although, I probably wouldnt get ina car with 3 unknown females either,so may be a non-point)

(I am completely ignorant of TS issues and so completely accept that my gut feelings over this may need addressing)