Raising feminist children

[YuleingFanjo]

Hi there...

Sorry if this has been done before - if so can you direct me to any threads?

I am basically wanting to find out about blogs and articles and so on about raising children (in particular sons) in a feminist way.

Basically I am just finding myself getting angrier and angrier about the way women are persuaded to cut themselves up, inject themselves and so on in the name of beauty. A friend of mine rather depressingly told me that she slept with a 50 year old man who had never slept with a woman with pubic hair! That she has slept with men who have shaved all theirs off! I am just open-mouthed that we live in a society where this is now the norm, that women will accept the gift of a boob job as a birthday present!

I don't want my son to grow up thinking all this is normal, I want him to have the right kind of influences so that when he is older he doesn't become one of those who think this is all normal.

do I make any sense? I just feel really angry about it and think I have a responsibility towards him to educate him the right way.

[AlwaysWild]

I have seen threads before so will be worth looking. (being helpful not saying 'so don't post). The only one I can recall is bluemilk for blogs.

[YuleingFanjo]

thank you - I have seen some too so will try a search

just feeling a real responsibility towards my son and not sure where to start.

[TheBreadstick]

I would have to say 'lead by example' which I'm sure you will. There is so much shite out there that keeping children away from archaic ideas and gender stereotypes will be impossible.

I'm currently expecting my first child - we haven't found out the sex - I also have a DSD (age 5) - and I'm increasingly overwhelmed by the gender stereotyping and poor messages delivered to such young children whether they are boys or girls. From the fact that I can't buy what I consider a gender-neutral toy such as a keyboard, post office or magna-doodle in yellow, red or green - they're all bloody pink or blue to the most offensive thing I've seen in a long time - a Hello Kitty 'Big Book of Life' with hair and make-up tips that someone had the great wisdom to buy for my niece as a Xmas present - and I quote: "A little tinted moisturiser and colour on your cheeks will even out and blemishes and make your skin glow ..." DN is 7 FFS.

I think the answer is, as I said earlier, to be the type of role model a son or daughter can look up to and respect. That said, if anyone bought my child that freakin' Hello Kitty book it would be going straight in the bin - the charity shop would be too good for it!

[GrimmaTheNome]

Good for you. I've noticed mothers-of-boys tend to be the worst for buying pale pink clothes, barbies and bratz dolls for girl children! Glad you won't be doing that

I don't know of any resources - seems to me a lot of it is commonsense. Challenging stereotypes as they rear their ugly heads. Perhaps it helps to have a stock of examples to counter the 'girls can't do...' type crap.

(breadstick - I think most sane people regard blue as gender neutral - its about the most common colour for girl's school uniforms. It never occurred to me that DDs magnadoodle was the 'boy' one.)

[CogitoErgoSometimes]

I don't think you need books. Your son will be hit with all kinds of conflicting messages about what is OK where women are concerned but, ultimately, his main role models for how men and women should behave and relate to each other will be you and his father. You are by far and away his biggest and most important influence. You will not only be challenging ideas he hears about regarding women as he grows up but all kinds of other moral and ideological questions.

But beware.... discuss rather than dictate because evangelising tends to backfire. Lost count of the number of friends I have who had (pick one) laid-back 'cool' parents but who are strict disciplinarians; very religious parents but who are confirmed atheists; very steady monogamous parents but who are on their third marriage....

[PamBeesly]

I've nothing to add but would like to sign up to any discussion about raising boys as feminists, I'm due a son in 7 weeks. I hope the messages we will instill in him will give him a good sense of fairness, equality etc its just with schools, influences of other people, toys etc I'd be more - I'm confused about all aspects of parenting though and haven't a clue about anything.

[CogitoErgoSometimes]

"its just with schools, influences of other people, toys etc I'd be more "

What you'll find is that 'schools, other people, toys etc' are talking to your child about every single subject under the sun. Try to think less about instilling messages and more about exploring opinions. Children are just small people. They have ideas on subjects that may be different to ours and they are entitled to challenge our ideas as much as we can challenge theirs. I've never consciously discussed my thoughts on religion with my DS for example, but he's attended church services, learned about religions at school etc. I had a feeling he was really into it. But he reaches the grand old age of 11yo, gets a piece of RE homework on constructing arguments why god does or doesn't exist.... and, to my immense relief, turns out to be as big an atheist as I am. :)

[Matronalia]

If you are on facebook all of these have regular updates and are connected to feminist blogs of their own. Princess Free Zone, Pigtail Pals and Hardy Girls, Healthy Women are more parenting focused.


www.facebook.com/pages/Suppressed-Histories-Archives/333661528320

www.facebook.com/agirlsguidetotakingovertheworld

www.facebook.com/AmazingWomenRock

www.facebook.com/7Wonderlicious

www.facebook.com/pages/Princess-Free-Zone/302555991320

www.facebook.com/poweredbygirl

www.facebook.com/PigtailPals

www.facebook.com/MauveDinosaur

www.facebook.com/hardygirls

www.facebook.com/WeAreEquals

[Victorialucas]

There is the feminist breeder.

[PamBeesly]

thats true cogito he'll be constantly exposed to messages about everything, there is just so much gender conditioning and sexism I'd like to give him the best start via the message me and his father give him. He is an individual though. Good for your little boy for coming to that clever conclusion about God on his own though :)

[PamBeesly]

Thanks for the links Matronalia

[SillyOldBear01]

In every Aspect of parenting lead by example is a golden rule. you can say all the right things until your blue in the face.

[CalamityLame]

I found 'Delusions of Gender' quite helpful when I was expecting DD.

DD is now 2 and therefore a bit young for discussion, but we do try to make sure that we praise her for 'doing' things, rather than looking nice. Lots of "oh what a wonderful drawing, you are so clever' and 'thank you so much for helping daddy to feed the cat' rather than 'ooh you look pretty today'. But as she gets older I will be encouraging more thoughtful analysis etc. I think I would find it much harder had she been a boy, mainly because I am pretty sure that DH would have gone in to 'rugby, cricket' mode.

[PamBeesly]

Good points Calamity it should be on deeds and actions rather than appearance. I will always tell him he is beautiful but make sure he knows its on the inside and outside (hopeful for a guddun')

[SantaIsAnAnagramOfSatan]

i think it is example. ds for example thinks i'm really strong (i am actually more bloody stubborn than strong) because i'll move massive pieces of furniture round, got the old sofa and chairs out of the house single handed for collection etc. so he just won't automatically think women are weak or incapable because he has seen otherwise.

that's a petty example but i hope ykwim.

then there's the challenging when they come out with stereotypes/crap learned at school or when you're watching something on tv - subtle oh is that true? oh but what about me? or so and so? sort of thing.

then there's stuff like watching Mulan and exploiting the opportunity to talk about how isn't it crazy how people think girls can't do x or boys can't do y? and looking at and laughing at the attitudes of sexism/gender policing. but also letting them know it is real - people really do suffer from it.

i don't know. muddling through.

hard for me to deal with the eww pink is horrible thing because i agree - i've never liked pink. so i can't do the oh pink is good you should wear it too thing but i can say i don't like pink and when he says pink is for girls can therefore say, oh have you ever seen me wear pink? do i like pink? and at his level point out the marketing con of it all and the yukness at uniforming genders. i can hate the pink culture (as in the whole agenda) and share that with him.

i also really encourage his friendships with girls and was ecstatic when his best friend at nursery was a girl because she was just as brave and energetic and etc etc as him so was his natural ally.

long waffle of disconnected thoughts from me sorry.

[SantaIsAnAnagramOfSatan]

with the mulan thing i think the big thing was getting him to feel empathy with her position that just because she was a girl she was restricted and barred from things and her courage and need to look after her family and go out and do was frustrated to the point of having to pretend to be a man and how unfair that was.

as with all aspects of teaching i do think a lot of it is about exploiting opportunities rather than engineering things out of nowhere.

[CalamityLame]

I totally agree Santa. Your post makes sense to me.

I have to say, though, that the only thing that I consciously want to do, is to make sure that I actually DO talk about it with DD. My mother was an especially ardent feminist, but never actually had a conversation with me about her beliefs, or the marches she went on, or the women's lib bus she drove, or the women's centres she worked in... I found out via other people and casually dropped comments. For some reason it was Not Spoken About and I wish it had been more of a topic of conversation. Though, having said that, we did grow up in a very non-communicative household, especially when it came to any sort of emotion or major life event.

Sorry, now I'm rambling. But I think that, for me, the most important aspect of raising a feminist child is to encourage an open discourse.

[exoticfruits]

I would say that you live it yourself-DCs do as you do and not as you say. There is nothing worse than being preached at. I think that I did a good job with my DSs judging by their attitudes and relationships with girlfriends but they would have stood for lectures or long discussions, they just take it from birth as normal.

[SantaIsAnAnagramOfSatan]

i worry though that i will make ds as much of an outsider as me with my sort of 'anthropological' view of what should be my own culture/nationality/whatever. i can't help but raise him with a critical eye because even if i tried not to it's who i am, he would have it. just have to hope i raise him with more confidence to be 'outside' in some respects and certainly won't be punishing him for it as i was punished.

he's already scarily perceptive sometimes in terms of seeing through the crap and then i have to try and teach him the manners to go with his perception (because it's seen as rude for children - well even adults lets face it - to tell the truth). it's an interesting balancing act. i'd like him to manage it better than me who would unconsciously blunder into offending someone who was in a strategic position to make life miserable for me just by being honest and 'outside' of some pretending game/world that i'd never felt part of.

now i really am waffling and claim my right to the most waffly prize.

[Matronalia]

Pretty much everything Santa/Satan has said above is what I do, only slightly tweaked for DD.

One thing I do is provide her only with books and films with lots of female characters/strong female characters/heroines. She has access to lots of books from school and can choose any books she wants from the library but books that I buy will have a strong female character in. There are no where near as many of these as there should be.

I also encourage friendships with boys as well as girls-her two best friends at school are boys atm and they all love bombing around the playground playing star wars. Now she is older she chooses her clothes and toys and I'm shocked at how hard I found it at first to follow her into the boys department and buy clothes that weren't 'pretty'.

I am not critical of my body within her hearing, I try really hard to be positive and not negative. I also answer all of her questions in an age appropriate way, I try not to lie or fudge so she knows quite a bit about periods etc at 6.5 as she has a lot of questions. She does like long discussions where I answer all of her questions and this is also something I like to encourage.

Oh and everything is prefaced with 'some people believe different things and that is ok too, everyone is entitled to their opinion and you shouldn't tell them what to do' as DD is particularly bossy confident and prone to 'setting people straight'. Sadly she has been bullied a little at school because of her love of 'boys things' (a Scooby Doo lunchbox and a Doctor Who T-shirt for example, ffs) but while I was seething she came up with a robust 'it can't be a boys thing, because I am a girl and I like it' which seems to have stopped it.

[SantaIsAnAnagramOfSatan]

yes. ds knows all about periods and how babies are made and born - nothing to graphic but he asks and i tell him in simple terms. i do think de-mystifying the differences is probably part of it.

not like you can 'hide' periods (even if there was some reason why you should) when followed into the toilet and told 'mummy you've got blood'. then that leads onto why/what and that leads onto babies and questions as to why i can't just have a baby brother for him without a man lead to discussions etc. i'm not sure if this is a feminist thing but i guess at least he'll grow up without ignorance or fear or a huge sense of 'otherness' about this stuff.

i do talk about fat and stuff in front of ds though - probably shouldn't but it just slips out when i'm feeling fat and noticing i've put weight on.

[GrimmaTheNome]

'it can't be a boys thing, because I am a girl and I like it' which seems to have stopped it.
Good for her.

Oh and everything is prefaced with 'some people believe different things and that is ok too, everyone is entitled to their opinion and you shouldn't tell them what to do'

Up to a point... TBH if my DD ever comes across any sort of 'girls cant...' crap then that opinion is not ok and IMO she can tell them exactly what to do! I truly wish she had, in yr1 when they were asked what they wanted to be when they grew up and she said, as she'd been saying since she was 3, 'a builder' (meaning some sort of engineer not brickie) the teacher said 'oh, but girls cant be builders' - being 5 years old she said 'oh all right a ballet dancer' ... crossly explaining to me afterwards that she definitely didn't want to be a dancer but it was all she could think of. Never mind, there's zero chance of her being a dancer and a high probability she'll 'build' something, be it satellites or new molecules - she knows girls can.

[Himalaya]

Grimma "oh but girls can't be builders" - what a terrible thing for a teacher to say. Did you go in and give them a hard time have a word??