How to deal with a misogynistic family?

[DontCallMeFrothyDragon]

... Or more specifically, my brother...

Boxing Day, we had another of our arguements, after he found it acceptable to start effing and blinding at his seven year old DSD, and threatening to "kick her out of the fucking house". After I defended her, (probably not in the best way; I took to asking him what the hell he thought he was doing talking to a seven year old like that) he told me that if I didn't "shut the fuck up", then I could "get the fuck out" of "his" house. Following his MIL's boxing day gathering, I had a rant to DBil about this, during which DBil pointed out it's not "his" house, considering DSil paid the mortgage, and pays most of the bills out of her income.

This isn't the first time DB has spoken to me in this manner, though. The first incident after returning to my home town came whilst I was still in the refuge, and he and DSil were two hours late returning DS from a day out. When I told him he could have let me know, he started getting tetchy, decided to start calling me a bitch, then used "everything I've done for you" as an excuse to tell me how much of an ungrateful bitch I am. (By this, he meant DSil babysitting once a week.) Another incident involved him telling me that he could understand why xP hit me, because I'm "that fucking annoying" , and that he was better than me, seeing as his family was together, he was getting married, he had his own house and a job.

DBil told me earlier today that he doesn't think DB would talk to a man in such a manner. There was also an incident a couple of years ago where DB spoke to his DMil in such a manner that he reduced her to tears, and his DMil is a pretty strong woman.

How do I make him see that his attitude towards women is not acceptable? Because it's infuriating, and ruining my relationship with him. :( Any ideas? Please?

[TheFestiveWife]

I have no solutions I'm afraid. But honestly I couldn't continue to have any kind of a relationship with a sibling if they spoke to me like that. Where does he get such an uppity misogynistic attitude from? Has he always been this much of a bully?

[DontCallMeFrothyDragon]

My mum has a bit of a misogynistic attitude towards her. The thing is, in destroying a relationship with him, it'd mean cutting ties with DSil, who despite our occassional bickerings, I love dearly. But I don't want his influence in DS's life to be so... vile? As a teen, there were times when he raised his fist to me, but I brushed it off as sibling fighting. I don't think he'd hit DSil, but there's that shadow of a doubt in my mind. :(

[DontCallMeFrothyDragon]

Sorry, "towards" in the first sentence should be "about".

[ElfenorRathbone]

Sorry I don't think there's anything you can do about such a vile man.

He sounds bloody horrible tbh.

Can you avoid him wihtout losing your DSil?

[DontCallMeFrothyDragon]

I'm not sure how I could do so any more than I am already, Elfenor. At the moment, I'm only seeing him on the occassional school run and at familly gatherings (Christmas, Boxing Day at his MIL's) Even when I bump into him up the school, 3 times out of 4 he manages to piss me off by asking "what's up; you're in a good mood?"... I'm recovering from a bad bout of depression, and he has never once, during that bout asked "What's up?". Instead, he's happier destroying the good moods by embarrassing me, and trying to make out in front of people that I'm usually completely miserable.

[sunshineandbooks]

. What a shitty situation to find yourself in.

I'm a bit unclear about the family relationships here. Is your brother in a relationship with someone who has a DD and both live with him?

Sadly, anyone who can talk to a seven year old like that in front of other adults is probably up to a hell of a lot worse behind closed doors. I think it quite likely that he is regularly verbally abusing both his partner and her DD. if they live with him it's even worse. Threatening to make a seven year old homeless over Christmas?

I'm afraid I think the only thing you can do in this situation is maintain a civil but distant relationship with your brother. I hate advising people to turn a blind eye to abusive relationships, but if you monitor this one you may have to be prepared to intervene at some point, possibly with outside agencies, which is never a decision that can be made lightly, particularly when it's your own flesh and blood.

So sorry you find yourself in this through no fault of your own.

[Dustinthewind]

I couldn't have a relationship with him.
Are you also saying that you couldn't have a relationship with your SIL or SD because he wouldn't permit it? Is he that much in charge of everyone else's lives?
Why does your SIL permit her DD to be abused by a man she's sharing a house and a life with?
It sounds unbearable, I feel appalled that he's in your face like this and you have no defence against it.
I'd either cut him out of my life as much as possible, or I'd try and work with everyone else to get him to understand that his attitude, words and actions are intolerable, and that he needs to stop. One voice might have no effect, but what if all of you tried together?

[CogitoErgoSometimes]

That's not misogyny... that's a bully. He picks on children, old people, women... the connection is not gender particuarly it's perceived weakness. No, he probably wouldn't speak to a 6'6" bloke like that but only because he'd risk a punch on the nose... not out of any inherent respect for the male gender. Like all bullies, they're best avoided and, if you can't avoid them, keep standing up to them.

[HandDivedScallopsrgreat]

The connection is gender. It is only women he is speaking to like that. The language he uses, the fact he is trying to ridicule them etc etc. This man doesn't like women and wants them to make sure they understand their place.

Frothy have you an opportunity to speak to your SIL alone at all? Is she happy with her relationship and your brother? What I am getting at is, is there an opportunity to get her and her DD out of the situation?

[msrisotto]

Can you meet with your SIL occasionally but not him? I'd be looking at ways to cut him out of my life if I were you. Life is too short to tolerate being bullied. Hugs x

[messyisthenewtidy]

It's gender related in that bullies pick on the weak and women are in general the weaker gender so they get this kind of verbal abuse more. Plus we've been trained to care more and bullies love to wind up people who actually care. Even women who bully other women are taking advantage of that inequity.

It sounds like you have been badly treated by more than one male relative. I'd get the hell out of that relationship as soon as you can. You don't need that kind of negativity. Tell DSil the reasons and see if you can work something out but very few things are worth having such a vile person in your life. No wonder you've suffered from depression. No way is it your fault xp hit you. Db is saying that to push your buttons. Good luck.

[DontCallMeFrothyDragon]

Sunshine, he's married to DSil, who has a DD from a previous relationship. Sorry if that was unclear.

DSil is a strong-willed woman, who I'd like to think would leave DB, should he be abusing her. But the act she's allowing him to do this to DD makes me wonder otherwise. I've been itching to ask her DB if he thinks my own DB would ever raise his hand to DSil, and if so, what she'd do. But I just can't find the words to put it as such.

HDSG, She's expressed unhaappiness in her relationship beforehand, but then seems to have it tlked out of her by my DM, who insists that she should count herself lucky, yada yada yada... Rather shamedly, at the beginning of the year, I told her she should cut DB some slack, as she was moaning about him not pulling his weight. I've been kicking myself so much for that lately. She seems to go through periods of being happy in the relationship, then sounding extremely wifeworked and stressed. The stressed, wifeworked side of her has shown up a lot over Christmas.

At the moment, I've narrowed my contact down with DB to "special occassions", and bumping into him on the school run. If I narrow it down any further, I'll be missing family Christmasses, birthdays and everything. I already have very little contact with my other siblings, and cutting him completely out of my life would mean I'd have next to no contact with my family, DParents aside. It's lose-lose atm. :(

[CogitoErgoSometimes]

It's not lose-lose it's drawing a line in the sand and being assertive. If you say you won't attend the next family occasion if he's there being aggressive then the people organising it have a choice ... they either invite him on condition he behaves himself or they leave him off the list and invite you instead. If there's any justice, he'll end up the one missing out rather than you. If you find him offensive, chances are others do as well.

[DontCallMeFrothyDragon]

Unfortunately, the rest of the family seems to think the sun shines out of his backside. His DBil is the exception to the rule, it seems. I know that if I go ahead with this, I'm effectively ending my relationships with the rest of the family, my parents aside. That's not me fearing the worst, it's me being realistic.

[SinicalSanta]

Could you try just laughing at him and making remarks like 'You are so quaint! Quite the little Victorian paterfamilias! Wake up, it's the 21st Century - men like you don't run the world anymore you know!'

it might work, ridicule is a good tool against bullies, if you can pull it off.

[SnapesMistressofMerriment]

:( situation, maybe start engineering more meet-ups with SIL so as to gently let her start seeing you as an ally?

[DontCallMeFrothyDragon]

Sinical, I'll give it a go. Suspect most of it may go over his head, though.

Snapes, am considering doing that, but hoping she doesn't go through a stage of cancelling on me a lot again. :(