Les Miserables and Feminism

[AlwaysWild]

Was just listening to Les Miserables (as you do), having not done so for many years, certainly prior to having much feminist awareness.

Was struck by the featuring of prostitution as a means of exploiting one of the main female characters. It shows her being worn down, selling everything she has (her jewelry, her hair), referring to her lack of choice because of her desire to help her child, reaching a point of desperation. Then being cajoled and persuaded until she gives in.

Then she sings:

Come on, Captain
You can wear your shoes
Don't it make a change
To have a girl who can't refuse
Easy money
Lying on a bed
Just as well they never see
The hate that's in your head
Don't they know they're making love
To one already dead!

There's a clip here up to 3.40.

I did a bit of googling and found this quote from Victor Hugo (who wrote the book)

"We say that slavery has vanished from European civilization, but this is not true. Slavery still exists, but now it applies only to women and its name is prostitution."

VICTOR HUGO, Les Misérables

Really surprised. Anyone want to discuss Les Mis from a feminist perspective?

[ElphabaisWicked]

Have you seen it live. Depending on the actress playing Fantine she really gives a sense of this is what I am reduced to becasue of men (starting wth the one who seduced her, got her pregnant then deserted her, leading on to the foreman who got her sacked because she wouldn;t sleep with him then the Captain gets her arrested because she hits him as he is a gentleman who can't possibly do any wrong whereas she is a woman and a prostitute.

It is ironic considering his views and treatment that Javert turns out to be the son of a prostitute.

I know nothing about feminism but I love Les Mis.

[LRDtheFeministDragon]

Wow, I need to watch it again - we did some of the songs from it at primary school but (funnily enough!) not that one.

I like the Hugo quotation very much.

[Shakey1500]

On the other hand Les Mis also has Madame Thenadier, strong female charachter, on a par with her husband in deviousness. Not afraid to speak her mind.The less said about child exploitation from the pair of them the better

Then Eponine, working alongside the men despite protestations, dies for the cause etc.

[AlwaysWild]

You see this is why I feel the need to watch again with this hat on. Female characters that show a diversity of behaviour from women rather than just the one dimensional standard tropes sounds good to me.

Maybe I should go all educated and read the book.

[ElphabaisWicked]

The 20th anniversary DVD is good if you ignore whatsis name Jonas.

[Shakey1500]

Off topic Elphaba oh goodness yes, isn't Jonas absolutely the weakest link (also I think it's the 25th anniversary?). But the rest a triumph, especially the end with the original cast returning

[AlwaysWild]

Who is jonas? Best not be jonas Armstrong wot I like.

[fascinatingcreature]

So pleased to see this thread. My dd is currently in rehearsals to play Fantine and it is such a powerful role for a young woman.

By the way Elphie my first Mumsnet name was Glinda!
As an MT fan can you identify my present Musical name influence? Another tragic female character.

[Shakey1500]

AlwaysWild no you're ok, Nick Jonas (of Jonas Brothers), sings the part of Marius. He can sing but not with the ability required for the part, especially against the quality of the rest of the cast. A real shame as the concert is great, it's available on DVD. As an aside, though I'm not a Michael Ball fan I was impressed with him in this performance.

[SantasNutellaFairy]

I'm looking forward to next year and the filmed musical version they are doing. Hugh Jackman as Valjean.

I was 14 when I read the novels- so probably a lot of it went over my head, but the Thenardiers stood out in their sheer nastiness, especially towards a child in their care.

[Shakey1500]

Santas did I read somewhere that Russell Crowe is to play Javert? I read he gave a fantastic audition and was champing at the bit but not sure if it was confirmed he got the part.

[SantasNutellaFairy]

I think it was. Anne Hathaway is Fantine- I don't know if she's a strong enough actress to pull it off though.

[ElphabaisWicked]

The only reference I can think of is Mack & Mabel (its not a show I know well just a couple of the songs) but the link may be too tenuous.

Other user names I have used include littlemisswoodscommaelle.

Yes it is 25th anniversary. I especially liked Samantha Barks as Fantine. When Michael Ball comes on at the end you realise just how inadequeate Nick Jonas is.

And Colm Wilkinson - pure class

[fascinatingcreature]

Mack and Mabel is right!!!!

I love legally blonde too!!!!!!!

[ElphabaisWicked]

whoo hoo, can't believe I got it right! I know its about a silent movie star and I can hum a couple of the songs (I remember Torvill & Dean dancing to it when I was about 10 years old)

Priscilla closes tonight :(

[fascinatingcreature]

Oh Yes - I had forgotten about Priscilla closing - I bet they are having a ball at the Palace Theatre tonight!
I hope that it will tour.

Speaking of which I really recommend the Sister Act Tour - Fabulous baby!!!!

[ElphabaisWicked]

back to feminism Elle Woods is an interesting subject

"Maybe Warrner saw a blonde trying to sleep her way to the top but all I saw was a woman who doesn't have to"

[fascinatingcreature]

Hmmm, Elle is an interesting case.
Another character who is strengthened by a great actress. Sheridan Smith was brilliant.
I think that many young women find their strength during their college years and Elle was the same. She conformed to the stereotype during her Delta nu years but eventually developed her self confidence and became her own person. - Perhaps a great role model for our daughters in the end?

[fascinatingcreature]

Back to Les Mis - Cosette is the disappointment for me. Purely defined by her "father" and husband. How dull.

[ElphabaisWicked]

Agree Sheridan Smith was fantastic - am so glad I saw her before she left the cast. Saw the tour too, other Elle's have had better singing voices but Sheridan acted the socks off everyone, you got all the nuances and the comedy.

Cosette is very wet, Marius should have gone for Eponine.

[fascinatingcreature]

Come to think of it Cosette suited the wetness of Jonas (and Gareth Gates IMO)

[fascinatingcreature]

If you feel like a complicated feminist discussion about musical theatre we could consider Avenue Q. Lucy the Slut deserves a whole thread of her own!

[ElphabaisWicked]

Dd asked to go see Sister Act instead of having a 10th birthday party - good girl! We loved it.

Didn't think I would like Avenue Q only went because dh wanted to see it, but it was so funny - yes Lucy the slut should have her own thread I guess!!!!

I hope Priscilla tours - I think it will. The kids want to go see it but not sure I am comfortable with the language for them yet.

[fascinatingcreature]

My musical mad dd is 16 so most things are acceptable now. Not sure that I could watch the "Pop Muzik" scene with young children.

Probably more important in my mind would be the maturity to understand the irony of songs like "Everyone's a little bit racist" and "The internet is for porn"

We are heading to London to see Ghost next weekend. Have you seen it yet?

[Jux]

I would recomm Les Mis, the book, to anyone interested in the status of women. The contrasts between rich and poor, 'noble' and ignoble are much clearer in the book and don't rely on how well someone portrays a character. Hugo was a bit like Dickens in that he wanted to show the contrasts in society and its rank injustice. We are still living under those sort of o justices today, but maybe that's because we didn't have a revolution!