should we have women only universities like they do in USA?

[darleneconnor]

In secondary education, girls schools tend to top the league tables so would single sex universities help more women get 1sts? Ive read that men still outperform women at uni, doing more lucretive degrees and getting more 1sts, might womens unis help this?

I dont think i would have wanted to go to one but id be happy for dd to go.

[Strix]

I think Women Universities (i.e. Wellesley) are private, and very expensive. I'm not really in support of them, to be honest. I think boys and girls should be treated the same, and separate is inherently unequal. I am all for women persuing the more lucrative degrees (law, medicine, finance, sciences, etc.), but why can not they not compete along side the boys?

I always tell my DD she is just as smart as the boys and there is no reason she shouldn't be just as confident and competitive. If she thinks she can outperform a boy on math table, she should stand up and challenge him. This behaviour is accepted and even encouraged in boys. And the same standard shoul, in my opinion, apply to girls.

[thaigreencurry]

No. At that level you want to mix with the opposite sex. I want my boys to be educated with girls we have already decided against applying for single sex grammar schools.

Once you leave education you have to compete against the opposite sex so why separate them at university?

[TeiTetua]

Some of the American women's colleges are very small and low-profile, and some of them are religious (mostly Catholic, is my guess). But over the last few decades many of them have started admitting men, or closed entirely, though some are apparently doing OK.

[AMumInScotland]

No. For two reasons -

1 - in the same way as quota systems let people say "They only got that position because of a quota", there'd be a risk that any university where women got more Firsts than they do in general would have people suggesting that the results were rigged, and the testing less rigorous.

2 - if there is a problem with universities, then it shoud be looked into in general, and fixed in general, not just for those who opt out of the usual universities.

FWIW I'm not sure that men getting more Firsts is necessarily sexist - men are more represented at the bottom and the top of the IQ curve, where women tend to be less at the extremes. If high IQ correlates with getting a First, which it is likely to, then it's not that surprising if men get more of them. I suppose that leads to a question about whether IQ tests and course marking are both sexist ways of judging ability.....

[SuchProspects]

There are still a couple of women only colleges at Oxford and Cambridge aren't there?

I can see why some women would thrive in a women only environment for some subjects. Despite the desire to see a level playing field it isn't here yet so I don't see why women should be obliged to go into an environment in which they are less likely to excel as men despite having the same capabilities. Some of the US's women only colleges have exceptional reputations and graduates are in demand, it doesn't have to lower their status.

But the American higher ed system is very different to the UK's and the women only colleges tend to be private, small and Liberal Arts none of which really translates well to the UK's HEd sector. I also think there is a risk, especially in some subjects, that what you gain from having a non-prejudiced environment you lose in your ability to build a world class faculty. Not sure how that would really balance out.

Personally I would not have wanted to go to one (in the UK or the US).

[CaptainBarnacles]

When I was younger, I couldn't see the point of women-only education. Now I am older (and a university lecturer) I love the idea! There is an excellent blog post on the subject here (first of a series of three).

There is also very strong research (which I'm too lazy to track down, sorry) which suggests that women who attend all-female colleges are much likely to imagine themselves in, and aspire to, leadership positions.

[CaveMum]

Cambridge has 3 women only colleges:

Newnham
Graduates include Germaine Greer, Dianne Abbott and Clare Balding

Lucy Cavendish
Graduates include Nooleen Heyzer (UN) and Pamela Bradley (IMF)

Murray Edwards (formerly New Hall)
Graduates include Sue Perkins, Tilda Swinton and Haleh Afshar


Oxford no longer has any women's only colleges as St Hilda's started accepting male students in 2007.

(thanks to Wikipedia!)

[kat2504]

I don't think this is a good idea myself. Women on average out-perform men academically (men might get more firsts, but firsts are less common and only account for the top few percent. I bet women get more 2:1s) Since women are not disadvantages at university, i don't think any special provision is required.

I was at an all female college at Durham (it has gone mixed now). But that was more of a residential thing. All lectures were mixed. I resented being in a female college and I thought it was actually sexist. I hadn't applied there but a certain amount of women accepted to the university had to fill up the college so we didn't get our first choice of college so that places in Mary's could be filled. A bit simplistic in argument but that was how I felt at the time.
To be fair I had a great experience at Uni and did well in that enviromnent. But I don't think women need special treatment academically anymore. I'm sure a good half of students are female. The attention just needs to be focussed on getting more women on specific types of courses.

[darleneconnor]

'Women arent disadvantaged at uni', rofl!

[kat2504]

In what way are women disadvantaged at uni please?
Obviously I can only speak from own experience.
I can understand that a woman who starts uni later than the average student, perhaps trying to do it with kids to look after, childcare to arrange might find it more difficult. More so than a mature male student with children to support?
Apart from single mothers, who are disadvantaged in many more respects, can you tell me how university discriminates against women? I am not aware of any proof of this. Not saying that it isn't true, just please enlighten me on the facts. As far as I am aware most young female students aged 18 or 19 are no worse off than male counterparts.

[darleneconnor]

Men get more firsts, even when you adjust for a level results.

Lots of courses/universities dont blind mark essays and there is research which shows markers give lower marks to the same essays with a female name on it.

There are plenty of old professors still around who still dont think women should have careers and that they are only at uni to find a husband.

At postgrad level women are discriminated against even more. There are more funded places available in male dominated subjects. Ive even heard of female postgrads being questioned about their contraception at interview!


It goes on and on...

[Prunnhilda]

I wonder if US parents are keener on women only universities because they know about sororities? I was utterly shocked and disgusted when I found out about them. Way to start your adult life

[sassyTHEFIRST]

I went to one of those American all-woman colleges for a year.
It was a bizarre mix of a an English boarding school - think lacrosse and midnight feasts (literally) - and a hotbed of feminist lesbianism.

Academically, I worked harder than I ever had done in my life up to that point - and there is no doubt that the lack of men made for a more confident/contributing studenthood.

But I was very glad to return to my co-ed english uni.

[TitsalinaBumSquash]

I don't think we should have single sex anything, I don't see the need, were individuals and not walking toalking genitals.

[ZZZenAgain]

are the teaching staff all female?

[MitchiestInge]

Somewhere along the line I've absorbed and accepted as fact the idea that women and girls do better in single sex academic environments - better results, and more confidence in their abilities. Where did I pick this up?

[baskingseals]

maybe but isn't there more to life than academic achievements?

[sassyTHEFIRST]

NO - male and female teaching staff

[MitchiestInge]

what do you mean baskingseals? That for women lowered academic expectation/achievement associated with mixed sex education (if this is even true, is it true?) is countered by other advantages?

[thefinerthingsinlife]

Kat
I have a friend who is trainning to be a phamacist and all the male students are given the best placements, these are the ones that are also more likely to offer employment at the end. Whereas the female students get the lesser placements. Apparently this practice is standard across medical degrees.

[darleneconnor]

If you want a top job you need top academics.

Im sure their would be plenty of opportunity to socialise with males outside of lectures/halls.

It certa8nly would have prevented the girl i knew who was raped in co ed halls by her flatmate.

[SardineQueen]

There are plenty of all girl and all boy secondary schools and most people don't get in a lather about it, or question whether the results are rigged if the girls do well.

i don't see why the same shouldn't apply to universities.

I did a very male dominated degree and while I got on well with all of my classmates there was sometimes a vibe from some of the lecturers that we (the 3 or 4 girls) were sort of irrelevant. They couldn't really understand what we were doing there IYSWIM.

I do think that the reason I ended up in a male dominated degree was because i went to a highly academic single sex secondary school where there were no barriers to doing any subject.

Also I worked at an FE college for a while and some of the courses there were outrageously male dominated to the point of there being a really nasty atmosphere if a woman entered the room.

Thinking about it those courses (learning to be a car mechanic, electrician etc) they ran "light" versions for women, as it was recognised that most women would not put themselves into that situation even if it was something that they really wanted to do. So sort of warm them up in a friendly environment before throwing them to the lions (as it were!).

So I suppose the answer is that in some less academic areas it already happens, and I think it would be valuable for some academic male dominated subjects.

[SardineQueen]

To clarify - people are questioning whether results are rigged now that girls are doing better across the board, but no-one asks whether there is anything untoward happening at specific successful girls schools. Most people accept they get those results as they are good schools and selective.

[SardineQueen]

In fact what kind of an argument is that?

That is we had all women's colleges and the women did well, then everybody would assume there was fraud happening because no-one would believe that women were capable of doing well?

And because of this we shouldn't have all female colleges?

Sorry that's just a bizarre argument.

[colditz]

No.

Our children have to learn to function in the real world. If we hide them away in single sex environments until they are 21 years old, how on earth do we expect them to deal with the opposite sex effectively?