Tell me again why I shouldn´t worry about choking and BLW??! And other practicalities..

[MurderousMaveta]

Ok so I´m not properly weaning yet, ds is 24 weeks but starting to show interest so he´s had a suck on a couple of steamed carrot sticks and smeared some banana around but that´s about it. Now today he was gumming away on a carrot stick when a bit breaks off in his mouth (but a sizeable bit). In this situation (no reaction from baby, just carried on sucking the now broken off piece) do you

A. Freak out and pull the piece of his mouth?
B. Leave him and see what he will do?

I have read all the stuff that says while they may gag they probably won´t choke.. but how, without teeth, are they actually supposed to be able to work the pieces down small enough to swallow without choking? The carrot was soft but not so soft it went to mush in his hand..

Oh yeah and banana.. when cut into ´chips´ he either holds it so tight it smooshes or it just slips out the top of his fist, he can´t keep hold of it...

[ruddynorah]

b. leave him and see what he will do.

don't cut banana into chips. try handing it over whole, not cut at all. or, cut in half, look down the middle and you'll see it naturally splits into 3 lengthways. or, leave skin on one side so he has something to grip onto. honestly you don't have to make it really easy, they figure it out quite soon. though banana is notoriously tricky! try pear or peach with skin on.

[lokka]

good questions, going through EXACTLY same feelings as you! Anybody help us?

[dooley1]

b. They will suck it until they can swallow it. If they don't want it they will push it out of their mouths with thier tongue

I would give a whole chunk of banana that they can hold to chew on.
Or I would mash it and spoon feed it. You can do both, give them a bit of toast to chew on while spoon feeding mashed banana for breakfast for example.

[flowerybeanbag]

lurking

[fibernie]

I used to coat banana in baby cereal to make it easy to hold onto, stopped it being slippery.

[ruddynorah]

or squash the banana onto the toast and let him self feed a la blw!

honestly, don't worry about the teeth thing. they have teeth, but they're inside their gums. it's not like old people who've lost their teeth so they only have soft gums.

[VamPesha]

Have to say I help him hold onto a whole chunk of banana. Starts off with us both holding it and ends up with me holding banana and him holding my hand and pulling it to his mouth when he wants more. I've also found over ripe bananas best as they mush quite nicely in his mouth whereas with less ripe ones lumps are more likely to break off and get sucked down and cause gagging.

I've given up on carrot for now as he was breaking off large lumps and gagging excessively on them then spitting it out. I would recommend softer veg to start like parsnip, sweet potato, normal potato etc that are more easily chewed to a swallowable mush. And veg like pear and figs that you can leave the skin on as it provides grip and helps stop big bits breaking off. And things like babycorn, asparagus and meat are actually very good as they dont tend to come apart except for very tiny bits which are easy to swallow and they can justy suck out juices and get used to tastes and textures. DS2 had roast beef, roast parsnips, roast sweet potatoes, boiled potatoes and banana for lunch today! Followed by a little of the apple from my apple pie sucked off my finger - he will not take anything from a spoon without spitting it straight back out!

But I am only in week 2 so still just experimenting!!

Dp gets terrified everytime he gags and seems to think I'm a terrible mother for just sitting there and watching but they have a very good gag reflex. I do fish out any very big bits or bits of skin that go in though.

[AitchTwoOh]

you should be watchful but you shouldn't worry...

and b and in future you could steam the carrot more if you were worried. also bananas, dd couldn't eat them until i started cutting the whole thing in half and giving her two mini bananas with the skin peeled back but still on, so she had something to grip.

try roasting veggies too, they're good for blw.

[MurderousMaveta]

oh good I´m glad the banana thing is common. I did start off with him just holding my hand and sucking on the whole banana but thought he´d like to hold it. Which he probably would. If he could

For the record, dh did a) but didn´t get as far as pulling it out, I did b) whereupon he actually did start choking It´s kind of made me think twice, I have to say..and dh now wants nothing to do with any of it..

Can you store (i.e. freeze) roast veg?

[TrinityRhino]

I was getting on ok with the 'good girl, it's ok, chew chew chew' whilst making stuoid grinning chewing faces as she gaged on something ready to spring into action of she has too much trouble until
I gave her a rice cake in her seat whilst strapped into the car seat bit on a shopping trolley, she gagged and then she tried to breathe in and she was at the exact angle for me to see into her open mouth to her throat and as she tried to breathe in I could see this peice of rice cake going back into her throat and then coming back as she coughed. I just panicked (inwardly as had other 2 with me), yanked her out of carseat, bent her forward and thumped her on the back. she coughed and it fell out.

I got really freaked out and haven't given her a rice cake sionce
Would she have inhaled it, when does gagging stop being gagging and becoming choking, when do you help them, How the hell do you keep calm and are we aiming for tiny bit or big bits and how hard or soft is good. I swear I thought I was a reasonably intelligent woman who could reason my way through blw but I will be honest and sya that I am having alot of trouble.

[TrinityRhino]

ooops did I kill the thread
sorry but I could really do with some advice and perspective

[MurderousMaveta]

Hi TrinityRhino, wish I could help but as you can see I´m a bit clueless too! lol

I´m with you on the doubts.. I don´t really understand the difference between gagging and choking either and am starting to wish I hadn´t gone on about BLW so much to my family

[Hattie05]

Trinity, i wouldn't give them food in those seats as i think they are laying to far back, which would be why she nearly inhaled it.
Had she been sat upright she would have either spat it out, or it would have fallen to the back of her mouth - made her gag - at which point i promise you so long as they are sat upright they spit it out, and my dd will promptly pick it back up and try again!

I've survived the scary blw time and see now its all worth while! My dd is now 11 months and loving food.

It really is true they just learn what they can swallow and what they cannot. She seems to know to keep hold of pieces of food and chew at them rather than shove the whole piece in iykwim. If too big a piece goes in then she spits it out and tries again.

I agree hold back on carrots and other hard foods like apples until they are better skilled and biting pieces.

[Tangle]

I'm no expert (still at the paranoid stage - DD1 has had steamed carrot once so far... ), but one thing that I confused me a bit at the HV talk was when she said car seats, bouncer chairs, etc, are good places to have your child while you start them on solids - but surely having them reclined will make it very difficult to clear lumps that they can't deal with? They haven't got gravity on their side...

Can't answer the gagging vs choking question though, and I'd love to know the answer as that was freaking out DH and I as well.

I like VamPesha's list of "disintegrating" edibles though - difficult to shrug off the "carrots and broccoli" mentality...

[VamPesha]

Gagging is when its abit too big, gets stuck in their throat but not blocking airway, they gag a couple of times and up it comes, bit scary to watch but nothing to worry about. Choking would be when it does block airway, much less common but much more scary.

TBH this is my first time trying blw, previous 2 were weaned traditional way with purees but even then both of them were having finger foods at 6 months. I was told they needed to be having lumps and finger foods by or around 6 months or you would miss 'the window' and have fussy eaters on purees for the rest of their lives Ok so thats slight exageration but ykwim! Anyway, they were both having lumps and finger foods and gagging away quite often so I think whichever way you go its probably going to happen as they learn to deal with solid, not pureed, food, whatever age they may be.

Perhaps doing some first aid so you feel more prepared if they do start to choke and so not so freaked out by it?

Oh and I meant to post on April PN thread wrt getting baby out of high chair in a hurry when choking - at this age I dont leave him alone for a second when hes eating so I dont strap him in, hes too young to escape, im there to stop him falling out and it means if he did start choking i could whip him out straight away.

[VamPesha]

Oh and in my previous post I did of course mean 'fruit like pear and fig' not veg

I have bought a load of veg today - parsnip, squash, sweet potato, carrots, courgette, aubergine - which I intend to chop into chip shapes, roast and freeze in little batches. I'll let you know how it goes!!
(Thats if I dont eat it all myself before it makes it to the freezer! )

[MurderousMaveta]

Pesha - good point re. the strapping him in, I had a similar episode to GMM trying to get him out. Seems silly I hadn´t thought of it before. Like your list of foods too, will give some of them a try..

PS. Re. frozen roast veg.. do you just heat it in the microwave then? Sounds like a good project for tomorrow

[AitchTwoOh]

totally agree, vam. one of the few choked i remember dd having was on an apple chunk in a restaurant highchair. as she struggled i just thought 'i have No Idea how to get her out of that thing' and slapped her on the back. fortunatey that cleared it.
i did an infant resus class when dd was 6 months. i'd recommend them to anyone, tbh, all babies pick weird stuff up and put it in their mouths. most maternity hospitals run free classes but if you can't get to one then look here. that's what you'd do if something was really, really stuck, but tbh the woman in our class said slap on the back first, then turn upside down and over the mum's knees and slap on the back and then you get onto all that in the clip. i once had to do a heimlich on a kid in a park choking on a grape, it actually comes pretty naturally in a crisis.

[TinkerbellesMum]

The difference between gagging and choking:

Babies gag from their mouth, around about where the right angle(ish) is on the outside. It stops them from allowing anything too big from getting past their mouth. They don't look at you while they gag, they don't get upset by it and after a few seconds it's over and they move onto the next piece or just stick what they coughed out back in! They don't like being messed with if it is just a gag. As they get more proficient at eating their gag reflex moves further back until it is like ours. Don't worry though, this takes a lot of time.

Choking is when gagging didn't work and usually follows a gag. They will go stiff, often with their arms out to their sides, they will look pleadingly at you and in that look you will see the world stand still. They will start to change colour, starting with red and eventually going to blue, but that is extreme.

I recommend sitting away from your LO if you are worried you won't know the difference or think you will panic. By the time you respond to them if they are gagging they will have stopped, if not you will get to them in time.

[Flumpity]

just appreciating this thread. i was a huge fan of BLW before I tried it and discovered i'm not an intelligent calm woman afterall but a panicking stress monster when her beloved baby gagged on her carrot!! have reverted to purees i'm afraid. still interested in blw / finger food but too terrified at the mo.

[vole3]

Can you give them tinned fruit - in juice not syrup obviously? I always seem to miss the 30 second window of when a pear is ripe and it has gone from being rock hard to mush without me noticing.

[chankins]

We're on second week of blw, and so far no choking and hardly any gagging - maybe I am pretty calm, I just look at him if he coughs on anything, it soon goes down one way or comes out the other . I did the first two the puree way, but dd1 hated purees and practically starved herself until at 6 mo we started giving her bits of proper food we were eating and she picked it up and loved it ! So she was an early blw;er !
I wouldn't give carrot to ds yet, he seems to do better on sweet potato, and various types of squash, roasted and cut into sticks.
He also loves anything bread-like, toast, pitta etc, with marmite on. He just holds things really tight and sucks and chews until gone !
Really glad not doing purees this time as it is such a pain in the arse, and then you have to get them onto finger food at some stage anyway...

[Flumpity]

yep, have since tried squash and sweet potato which went down much better than the carrot. amusingly, although its now pureed on a spoon, she is determined to BLW herself and grabs the spoon by the end, gets all the goo onto her hands, then eats it from her hands and fingers rather than the spoon.

[Jellyjuice]

I had a minor gagging/choking incident with DS1 and some apple but it really freaked me out. I was happy with softer foods such as banana but chunks of apple and carrot made me too nervous. I used these for a little while, just whilst I dealt with my fears more than anything else. They can still chew/suck on the fruit/veg to get the flavours but without the risk of choking. Obviously just a short term thing though

[butterscotch]

OHHH I've seen those feeder things and thought about them but wasn't sure if they were really BLW? I have started giving DD the dummy again as she loves putting things in and out of her mouth so seemed an easy option especially as you can clip it on so when your out and about it doesn't keep dropping to the floor