My unfillable baby

[JenAlice]

Hi everyone

My lo is 17 weeks old and had started screaming at me after she finished her 9oz bottles until I gave her more! So I started her on baby rice a couple of weeks ago and this weekend have started giviung her baby muesli and pureed fruit. So yesterday she had a 9oz bottle at 6.30am, 3 tablespoons of baby muesli and about 6oz of milk at 9.30, 9oz of milk at 12.30,a tub of apple and pear puree and about 6oz of milk at 3.30 and 9oz of milk at 6.30 before bed. She sleeps through (and I'd like to keep it that way!) Today she has so far had the same, but after her 12.30 bottle she again screamed for more and took another 2 1/2 oz. Is she telling me she now wants 3 meals a day or is that really too much for her at this age? Help! I can't give her anymore milk! What are people's experiences with hungry babies?

[fluffyanimal]

I wouldn't give any more solids just yet, but more milk. It sounds like a growth spurt - they can last for quite a while! Have you tried the 'hungry' formula (SMA White etc)? Or feeding her more frequently? I know it's a drain but she's a bit tiny to be on more than a few spoonfuls of fruit puree.

Also if she does start night waking, more solid food won't guarantee to help her sleep I'm afraid. Just try to hang in there, lots of people have been there!

[TrinityRhino]

Why can't you just give her more milk?

[JenAlice]

I don't want to give her anymore milk because she has reflux and I just think that the more liquid there is sloshing about the worse the reflux is lkiely to be. My health visitor told me not to use hungry baby milk as she said it would make her constipated???

[TrinityRhino]

oh right sorry, I don't know anything about reflux (luckily with three kids) so I'll step away now
Hope you manage to sort it out

[oops]

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[oops]

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[PrettyCandles]

Are you sure she's screaming with hunger? Could she be screaming because the reflux is bothering her and she's desperate to keep swallowing? Have you tried a dummy? It might be worth trying the hungry milk, as it may help and not constipate her. If it does, try a different brand, you can always go back to what you were giving her in the first place.

[divorcee]

Reflux is horrible! First thing is to have her meds re assessed or if she has none, maybe try some. Could she be screaming due to being uncomfortable from the reflux? Acidy foods can make it worse I think, so cut back on the fruit and maybe replace it with veg or cereal.

Definitly worth looking at the hungrier baby formula as not every baby has the same side effects.

I AM from the 'didn't do me any harm' brigade and I believe babies develop at different speeds, however I do think you should look into everything else first before upping her food.

After speaking to docs and maybe a dietician, then it may be she just needs more solid food. Milk contains all the calories she needs but solids take longer to digest and can satisfy a baby for longer. But you do need to get professional advice re the reflux

[JenAlice]

Have been there with the reflux advice and medication and nothing makes any difference plus she's on the 75th centile for weight and progressing well so noone has any concerns. HV is happy that we are weaning. When I give her more milk she settles and it is definitely a hungry scream rather than a pain scream (Been through all this bit at 6 weeks). And Oops I am well aware of what all the different sources of info say about ages for weaning and I didn't take the decision to start her lightly! The WHO info is not necessarily the most accurate, and there are plenty of reliable sources saying 17 weeks is fine to start.

[divorcee]

I had a very hungry son in the days of 3-4 month old weaning. He was on 3 meals a day within a week of the first taste and 3 meals plus 3 puddings by 2 weeks. He's 18 and still has a HUGE appetite.

We did discover though with him he had a constant sore throat and was grazing throughout the day. He had to have his tonsils removed at 3 years.

Maybe the action of eating/drinking is soothing her reflux symptoms

It's horrible when you don't have the instant answer and of course all the rules and regs that keep changing every few years

[terramum]

WHO isnt reliable? Who says that?

[JenAlice]

I really don't think she is any pain with her reflux though, it's been happening since she was 6 weeks old and has never bothered her - it just comes out! All day! I've always thought that she took more to compensate for what was coming out so that she didn't feel hungry, so maybe it's still that and she is still in a continual growth spurt. I'll see what happens tomorrow, but nice to hear how quickly your son progressed with it divorcee. It is a minefield and it's so difficult sometimes to know what to do for the best

[JenAlice]

Can't give you refs off the top of my head but there is evidence that suggests that there are windows for development of chewing and swallowing between 4 and 5 months - you'd miss that if you followed WHO.

[divorcee]

From what I understand of reflux, it does burn so although she doesn't seem too affected, it could be that she is just used to it but during flare ups it could be uncomfortable. Grazing is common as is eating more due to what is vomited up. I think as you have all looked at all the research and referances you have to follow your instincts. If food is what she needs, then that is what she should have. I hope she settles soon

[terramum]

If a health professional is talking about windows of opportunity & implying that WHO isnt accurate then they need reporting & retraining as they are completely out of date. The DOH guidelines that all UK health professionals should be working within (brought out in 2003) state:

"Will waiting until six months affect a baby?s ability to chew? No. This misconception appears to have arisen from an old scientific/research paper presenting case studies of children who remained on a liquid diet for 6-10 months, most of whom had developmental delays or disabilities. A hypothesis was suggested that ?if children are not given solid foods to chew at a time when they are first able to chew, troublesome feeding problems may occur?. This has since been quoted and inappropriately extended to younger babies with normal development. [ref: Illingworth RS and Lister J. The critical or sensitive period, with special reference to certain feeding problems in infants]"

[tiktok]

JenAlice - where is there a reliable reference saying it is ok to start at 17 weeks? The compromise in the UK is to say that if mothers insist on weaning before the recommended 6 months, then they need to know not to do it before 17 weeks.

This is very different from saying it is 'ok' to start at 17 weeks.

It is the only reference I know of, too.....would love to know where you have found 'plenty' of references

[tiktok]

And JenAlice - I don't think anyone anywhere has suggested, even erronoeously, that there is a window of opportunity for swallowing...terramum has knocked the chewing 'window' on the head, so take this post as knocking the 'swallowing' one on the head, too. A baby who could not swallow would be picked up at birth.

[JenAlice]

To be honest I can't be bothered to argue - if you want to look at all the literature do a medline search, also bear in mind the value of all the anecdotal evidence that isn't documented. I only wanted to know how how other people were getting on with hungry babies not enter into a debate about the rights and wrongs of early weaning! And for the record I'm quite happy with my decision to wean and my lo is loving it!

[oops]

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[tiktok]

JenAlice, it's because I know the literature that I asked about your (over?)-confident assertions about what the research says....I was concerned maybe I had missed these 'plenty of reliable sources' saying it's ok to wean at 17 weeks, and the 'evidence that suggests' a window of opportunity at 4 and 5 months for chewing and swallowing (swallowing, FGS....)that babies might miss (presumably to their detriment).

I asked fairly courteously where your 'plenty of reliable sources' were and your reply is you 'can't be bothered' and that I can do a medline search.

Charming!!

If you don't want to engage in talk about topics you bring up, then don't post on a talkboard

You're the one who brought up the reliability of WHO guidance and windows of opportunity, after all.... you are bound to get people talking in response on a talkboard designed for this purpose

for you

[tiktok]

Doh....that last 'for you ' is meaningless - it was the remnant of something I edited out.

[JenAlice]

As I said previously tiktok - don't have references to hand, am currently unable to access my data s it is all at work and I am currently enjoying my mat leave, and really only wanted to talk to other people about hungry babies not be judged on my decision to wean, which is what I posted to start with! It's arguing I can't be bothered with that's all!

I can do a to you - topic closed for me.

[tiktok]

OK - sympathise with not wanting to argue!

Here's a tip: don't say something like there are 'plenty of reliable sources' and 'evidence suggests' without expecting someone to question you. Don't sound so confident with stuff you can't back up.