Is anybody else not part of a union?

[Badgerandhedgehog]

Hello,

Not intended contentiously but having needed my Union in the last and having found the level of support very poor, I have decided (not completely but certainly leaning this way) not to continue my membership.

I am aware of alternative ways one can have legal protection without actually being part of a union and am tempted to go with this.

Any thoughts or views?

[noblegiraffe]

If the unions win improved conditions for teachers, will you not be accepting them?

[albertcamus]

I felt like this, and let my NUT membership lapse three years ago. I've just re-joined, though, due to not trusting my current employer & having to work with a back-stabbing, incompetent stirrer in my Department. Better safe than sorry.

[Badgerandhedgehog]

I think the key word there is 'if', giraffe isn't it? :)

But I'm not posting for an argument.

Albert, I do know what you mean but unfortunately I was confident that my Union would help and support with issues I had at work and they did not and this seems to be fairly consistent across the main unions.

Plus, I really don't agree with striking and am working in an academy anyway.

[noblegiraffe]

Well they have, badger

PPA time, not having to work in lunchtimes, not having to do admin tasks etc. I'm pretty sure our pay and pensions would be in worse nick too.

[Badgerandhedgehog]

Like I say giraffe - I'm not posting for an argument.

[noblegiraffe]

Just because your Union didn't help you particularly well with an individual issue, that doesn't mean that they haven't achieved anything you benefit from at a national level. Your view is too narrow!

[Littlefish]

I agree with noble. Belonging to a union is about much more than the individual support they offer.

[EverydayAnya]

Eh? Who's having an argument? You posted asking if people weren't part of a union. Of
Course you are going to get more teachers who are part of unions explaining the importance of being in a union. noble has it spot on about how much the unions have already done for is regardless
Of your individual experiences. That's not an argument. That's staying facts

[EverydayAnya]

Stating

[albertcamus]

I have observed & experienced all of these issues :

• County having area Union reps 'on side' & acting AGAINST the interests of members they are meant to be supporting (NASUWT were particularly guilty of this)
  
• unions not responding to distressed colleagues' calls / requests for help
  
• 'snouts in the trough' usage of subs for expensive annual 'meetings' involving nothing more than eating & drinking
  
• sincere but ineffectual speakers coming to School to 'advise' on teachers' rights prior to academisation, but actually speaking gibberish while SLT/County staff looked on happily as nobody was any the wiser about their rights
  
• decent & sincere colleagues who become union reps being targeted, shafted & proactively 'moved on'
  
  I've only paid my subs & rejoined this year because our 'Head of T&L' is away with the fairies and my Department's performance is atrocious due to my colleague. I have no faith that it will be of any use, but it's cheaper than consulting an employment lawyer.

[Badgerandhedgehog]

I've had similar experiences alfred, which is why I feel I can't and don't wish to be part of a union.

[Maidupmum]

I agree. If there was a way to just pay a 'retainer' in case you ever need legal advice then I'd do that instead.

[brucebogtrotter]

Until last year I worked in an academy. One of my colleagues was disdainful of unions, often crowing about the money he had saved by not being in one. One day, SLT decided his face didn't fit any more. He found himself on a trumped up misconduct charge without any support or representation. It wasn't pretty.

For that reason, I implore you to join a union.

[noblegiraffe]

If you turn your back on your Union, you are turning your back on the power of collective bargaining.

You are saying that you are not interested in an organisation which will stand up for you against the government.

Given the government, are you sure that's wise?

[Badgerandhedgehog]

Bruce, I have already been managed out of a role. The union did nothing - they don't. In the case of misconduct I have arranged legal protection through something I read on TES.

However, I will add I certainly won't be crowing about anything. It makes me really sad that being in a union is to all intents and purposes meaningless - my experience is that they are very good at sounding indignant and outraged initially but then soon back down. Mine was so clearly a case that should never have happened, but it did. Still, no real harm done I suppose.

[Badgerandhedgehog]

Giraffe, for the third time, I don't want to argue :)

[noblegiraffe]

So when you said 'any thoughts or views?' you actually meant 'I've made up my mind so please only post wholehearted agreement'?

Leave the union if you like, but don't go complaining when the government shits all over the profession.

[Badgerandhedgehog]

No, not really. But I am trying to be polite.

However, since you are determined to argue, I will say that firstly, i, like many teachers, joined a union initially for legal protection should it be needed and I have found them not to be forthcoming with this so therefore it seems reasonable for me not to renew my membership.

It's interesting you assume I am against the government, that my default setting is to stand against them and disagree with them. Why? Why should my political leanings be assumed because of my profession?

You have stated I have made up my mind and I am only interested in people who agree with me. Without wishing to sound belligerent, I feel that's actually your stance, not mine.

Clearly it's something you feel passionately about - so do I, but for different reasons. I feel unions as they are now let people down whilst still taking their fees and since I have an alternative I wish to use that.

[noblegiraffe]

If you are not only interested in people who agree with you why do you keep essentially telling me to shut up (3 times you told me my posts aren't welcome) when I post my view which disagrees with yours?

And if you are entirely in favour of everything that this government does concerning teachers (pensions? Pay? Working conditions?) then you really are a turkey voting for Christmas.

[ilovesooty]

I'm acutely saddened that so many people nowadays seem to have such a narrow view of unions and see them only as some kind of insurance policy.

When I hear people saying that they don't agree with striking I'm unsurprised that academies have been able to erode teachers ' terms and conditions without a fight and that this government is going to be able to ride roughshod over the rights of people in many professions.
Without unions people in all sorts of jobs wouldn't have the employment rights which others fought so hard to secure.

[Badgerandhedgehog]

I would never be so rude as to tell someone to shut up even if only by implication.

However, your posts have had quite an aggressive ring to them from the start, and therefore I was reluctant to engage. I hoped that by emphasising I did not want to argue you would realise the purpose of my post was conversational in its basis rather than confrontational.

As such, I am definitely not bringing politics into it! :)

[Badgerandhedgehog]

I find it sad as well in a way ilovesooty.

But I just can't be part of something I disagree with.

[albertcamus]

//www.edapt.org.uk

I was tempted to look into this organisation, having met some reps at the last TES show in London, they seemed very decent & worldly folk.

Does anyone have any experience of them?

AFAIC, they couldn't be worse than the unions in my area :(

[Badgerandhedgehog]

That's the one I have joined Alfred.

[echt]

Everything ilovesooty and noblegiraffe said.

Really, the mind-buggering front to post asking for views and then, er…objecting to views being expressed.

Oh… those would be views putting the poster on the spot/disagreeing with them.