First ever dog - smallish spaniel for young family?

[Fillybuster]

Help please!

Ok, it's not quite my first ever dog - that was a wonderful cocker spaniel in my 20s when living with my dps - but it will be our first ever family dog.

I think we've agreed on a spaniel, so now we need to agree what flavour! I think a Cavalier King Charles spaniel would work really well for us, but would love to get your input and suggestions.

Family details:
DCs are DS 9.5 (desperate for a dog), DD1 7 (quite keen) and DD2 4.5 (recently become terrified of all dogs).
Au pair (keen).
Me (v keen)
DH (not so keen but will help out even if he doesn't think so now).
My DPs - live close by. Have a small dog, will dogsit when required.
MIL - lives close by, around most of the time, will help when required.

House occupancy:
Kids are at school 9-4.
Au pair is home most of the day, most days.
I work from home a lot (min 2 days/wk).
Cleaners in house 1.5 days/week.

Disclaimer
I'm not an idiot: I do know how much time puppy training etc. can take and am not going to rush into anything until we've worked out all the details, so don't come and shout at me!

Thank you :)

[Hoppinggreen]

I think from other posts on here that KCS are prone to a lot of health issues.

[BOFster]

Some do have health trouble, but by no means all. As always, go to a breeder that does health checks and don't respond to ads online or in the paper which could we'll be puppy farms.

CKC spaniels are temperamentally well-suited to families, and make loyal and affectionate companion dogs.

[EvenBetter]

Ah, so you've spaniel experience! They're mental, you know. Deliciously beautiful and wriggly and adoring, but fuckin exhausting. You'll be covered in muck and a hollow eyed husk of your former self and they'll be ready for walkie number 5 of the day. (Though the more you walk them, the more exercise they'll want) they tend to lose themselves in their nose once they smell something fabulous (unlike sight hounds, say).

Cavaliers have horrific hereditary health problems-their bulging eyes are because their brains are too large for their skulls, they can't breathe easily, tend to come with heart conditions, etc. my mates one died aged 5, from heart problems, it's heart exploded in its chest at the vets. I personally wouldn't support the continued breeding of them, even if you did find a breeder who'd meticulously health screened both parents and chose to take the risk and go on a waiting list for a hopefully slightly healthier puppy, who knows what you'd get? (Same for any puppy though, but this breed is heartbreakingly damaged)

[Lancelottie]

That's a real shame. My kids' piano teacher has had the same little KCS ever since they started lessons -- so, what, 10 years ago? and it still seems as bouncy and lovable as ever, so presumably there are some healthy ones out there.

[needastrongone]

I have a cocker and a springer. Both are mud magnets but neither are mental. Easy to train as they love to please and love food. Both are big soft lumps of lard, lets face it, how many spaniel attacks do you hear of?

You set up sounds ideal tbh.

[BOFster]

There are plenty of healthy ones without "bulgy eyes" . We walk in the park with one of 16 yrs of age.

[Finola1step]

Watching with interest. I am also v keen to get a first family dog. And v keen on a CKC...

[BOFster]

Buying from the most reputable breeder you can find who is stringent about only breeding from healthy dogs is the best way to ensure the continued existence of this lovely breed. It would be a real shame if responsible dog owners avoided CKCs because backyard breeders and puppy farmers have created health problems in the gene stock. The key should always be proper ethical breeding management.

[Fillybuster]

Wow. Thanks for the feedback and for not flaming me for not being at home all day every day

I adore spaniels, so a CKC seemed like a good way to get my spaniel fix in small-dog mode. I was aware of the health problems but thought that a good breeder was the way to resolve that?

Completely open to other spaniel breed suggestions - I just want to find the 'right' dog for our family so we can give it lots of love and walks.

PS I didn't mention: city dwellers with a 80 foot secure garden and lots of parks nearby, if that makes a difference?

[MillyMollyMandy78]

We have a king charles spaniel and he was our first dog. He is 4 years old now. They make wonderful pets: very gentle and sweet with children too. They have a lovely temperment and adore people. He wins the heart of everyone who meets him: even those that say they arent keen on dogs. He is still as nutty as a fruitcake when we take him out for walks but indoors he is very chilled out. He spends most of his time sleeping or curling up for cuddles. The health problems associated with the breed are a concern and unfortunately when deciding on getting a second dog we decided against getting another KCS for this very reason. Our second dog is lovely too, but i would still love another KCS. This is a popular breed for many reasons, which unfortunately means there is a lot of bad breeding going on. Be very choosy about deciding on the right pup: make sure all the relevant health screening has been done. We were very careeful with our boy and he is a picture of health: very strong and no sign of any problems... But the worry is always there in the back of my mind.

[Fillybuster]

Thank you Millymollymandy and sorry for x-post BOF

How would I find out about recommended breeders?

[Buttholelane]

How many spaniel attscke do you hear of

Quite a lot actually, they make up a sizeable proportion of bites on children requiring hospitalisation.
That said, probably more due to their popularity than the breed itself.

I have seen the bulging eyes Cavaliers a previous poster talks of and I also think it's morally wrong to continue breeding them due to the sheer weight of serious inherited disorders.

I actually don't like spaniels that much, every springer I have met bar one or two has been quite growly and nervous. Ditto for cockers. Resource guarding can be a problem in cockers and sprinters aswell more so than some other breeds.

If I had to pick, I would go for a working type cocker or a clumber spaniel.
Don't be scared off by some saying working lines will need excessive exercise and training, I haven't found that to be the case and neither have many owners of working bred dogs I've spoken to.

[Buttholelane]

** springers

And you can find good breeders on champdogs.

[Fillybuster]

Thanks for your input, Butthole and for the suggestions.

I'm a big spaniel fan, and (as I said) I've already trained up one, and been closely involved in her replacement, too, so fairly biased towards them. But appreciate that not everyone will agree :)

All - if not a CKC (although right now, I'm still leaning in that direction), and possible if not a spaniel (as I don't want anything as big as a springer...no actually, I do...I really want a couple of springers and 2 red setters, but first the dcs need to leave home to make space....) then open to any other breed suggestions...

Thank you, good people of MN

[needastrongone]

Just clarying, mine is a working cocker and as butt says, doesn't need hours and hours of exercise. He's a gentle, placid little soul.

Anecdotally, I know tons of spaniels and not one is anything other than a big friendly lump. Some are bouncy and excitable, granted, but all are friendly. Completely accept there will be aggressive spaniels, but none I can think of in the headlines recently.

[agnesnott]

I bought my then 8 year old a cavie for Xmas 8 years ago. He is her best friend. Now she is a teenager he understands her moods, loves her unconditionally. He is scatty, an attention slut, thinks he is a cat, eats carrots, loves walks and sleeping on laps. He does shed a lot though.
I bought him from a kennel club breeder. He was the runt and not show quality ,he is about size 6 month puppy now, but so far has no health issues. They don't have long life span though.
I had dogs before would definitely recommend a cavie as a first dog. Mine doesnt have a vicious bone but obviously I would supervise around small children.

[Buttholelane]

I don't intensely dislike any breed, I just put spaniels (and poodles) near the bottom to what I personally would pick due to the poor examples I have met.
I have met a few lovely ones and of course, adult temperament is going to be down more to owner handling, training and socialisation than anything else.

A clumber spaniel is I think smaller than a springer in height BUT they are very heavy dogs so perhaps not suitable if your looking for something small.
I suggested them as they have a reputation for being quite placid.
To put it in perspective, my border collie weighs around 15kg, at its largest, a clumber spaniel can be up to 35kg!

You mentioned setters, are you definitely wanting a gundog?

[agnesnott]

This is mine being Xmas dog!

[Happyhetty]

We have a 7m old Sprocker spaniel. Best decision we made! He's from working lines and has been a doddle to train, is loving and placid in the house and with the children and a nutter when out walking! I'm so glad we went for a spaniel despite everyone telling us they are crazy and not for first time owners. He is perfect for us!

[MsAdorabelleDearheartVonLipwig]

We lost our working cocker just before Christmas but he was just the most fantastic little dog. Easy to train, obedient, pretty laid back and very affectionate. I will definitely have another one one day but I can't look at them at the moment. There are a lot round here - shooting community - and they are such eager hard working little dogs.

[catsdogsandbabies]

Vet here. CKCS lovely dog but they suffer: heart disease, epilepsy and (Google this) syringohydromyelia. The first can be assessed in parents by good breeders as part of a scheme. The later is painful and horrible and diagnosed only by MRI and I hsbent met a breeder yet who does MRI scans of parents as they cost £1000.
They are a very inbred lot coming from a few original dogs. The mitral valve scheme is good but some strains bred out heart disease and bred in epilepsy. I have a young family and would love one but have seen too many suffering and dying. Sorry but think carefully and Google the above condition plus Claire rusbridge, a neurologist who has a lovely website with owner friendly info.

[TeamSteady]

If you do go with a clumber, make sure you go to a responsible breeder who health tests their dogs.

The breed average for clumber hip scores is high, altho coming down. It was in the late thirties twenty years ago. Think it's now around 25. They aren't my breed, i just remember being quite shocked when i saw how high the scores were.

(And if they are anything like labs, most breed experts would agree that the "true" breed average score is higher, as not everyone scores their dogs, and some people don't send X-rays to the BVA for scoring if they don't look good, hence giving an artificially lower average score).

[Buttholelane]

I did not know that.
I knew they used to be very sickly then went almost extinct.
Mistakenly thought the 'new' clumber was as healthy as a pure breed can be.

[RiojaHaze]

I have working cockers. They are nt an awful lot bigger than King Charles, are beautiful dogs and so clever.

They are great with my kids and fit in really well - happy to trot along on the school run, accompany me on a run or tire themselves out running across fields and chasing birds.

They're easy to train, loyal and loving. Can you tell I like them

[mistlethrush]

Probably reasonable number of bites because too many parents think 'Ah, what a cute little dog, isn't it good with the children, they can stroke it as much as they want' rather than train their children very thoroughly to give the dog space when it's sleeping or on its bed, or eating.... Please be really careful with children and dogs! (I do have a child and dogs and haven't had any problems - there are just too many sad stories out there!)