Natural worm, flea and tick repellents - Verm-X, Billy No Mates etc

[SpicyPear]

I currently Advocate my dogs because of a high prevalence of lung work in our area. It works well and so far we have not had a problem with any nasties.

However, they both hate it and it really is repulsive smelling stuff to have to deal with every month. And worse if I mess up and get it on my lip!

Does anybody here use natural parasite control? Was looking for experiences and also welcome any comments from our regular vets

I could use it in conjunction with Wormcount screening but it would work out more expensive and is obviously also quite a faff to do screening every 6 weeks or so for two dogs.

[Lonecatwithkitten]

Lungworm is not picked up on a standard worm screen you need to ask for a Baermann test to make sure you catch them.
I have not come across any one doing routine screening in dogs as it is considerable more expensive than prevention.

[SpicyPear]

It would be £15 per dog for both screens if I used www.wormcount.com/

[Lonecatwithkitten]

And 4 milbemax tablets 1 per 25kg monthly is £19.81 so for most people with a less than 25kg dog it is considerably more expensive.

[Aked]

Is there any scientific data that supports any of the natural treatments?

I'm not sure I would take the risk of lungworm (particularly in a prevalent area) over the hassle of advocate/milbemax.

But that is just me :)

[SpicyPear]

I'd be interested to know that as well aked. I'm not at all convinced yet, but heard a vet waxing lyrical about it recently so thought it was worth canvassing opinion.

I'm not willing to take any risks with lungworm though.

[fanoftheinvisibleman]

I'm in a similar position Spicy and dithering. I raw feed too and am not keen on the idea of chemicals. I have noticed that he seems off colour after worming if I am honest. It seems to be the thing on raw sites to worm count and titre test in place of wormers and vax and many seem to use DE.

I like the idea of ditching the harsh drugs but I have been too scared. I doubt I'd have the support of my vets either (vets4pets chain, lovely staff and weren't scathing when I fessed to raw but seem to have a very shall we say conservative approach). I'd like to be braver but I don't know if it is a step too far

[affafantoosh]

If you have children I'd strongly advise against using anything but licensed roundwormers. Not just because of the risk of ocular or visceral larval migrans, but because there's a slight suggestion that toxocara may be linked to respiratory/asthma type conditions in children. There's only limited research on this (on phone and off out now but will try to find link for you later) but not a chance to be taking IMO.

These medicines target the physiology of invertebrates which is completely different to that of mammals so they genuinely are very safe (exception being collies needing care with milbemax dosing). And worm counts are not much use in the case of toxocara IMO because the arrested larvae may reactivate at any time so a low count could change quickly.

In not a parasitologist though!

[SpicyPear]

That's really helpful thanks Affafan.

I don't have children but it's good to know about that.

One of issues with Advocate is that they both go very quiet and sulky (for want of a better word) after it. When I just had my nervous girl I thought it was a handling thing, but confident boy also does it so it seems likely that it causes some physiological discomfort at the time of application.

[noddingoff]

Went and had a look through a UK vet forum that I'm on - one of the regular posters there is in Swansea which is pretty much the lungworm capital of the UK. If not using the licensed regime of Advocate or Milbemax, she likes to do 7 days Panacur one month and normal Milbemax dose the next month and continue alternating like this.
Trouble with lungworm is, they don't necessarily show respiratory signs -sometimes the lack of blood clotting shows up first, as a bleed into the brain or spinal cord for example.
Also, re-infection is common apparently - they don't build any protective immunity to it having been exposed to it, even the ones that have been clinically affected.
I have sympathy as I don't like throwing stuff on dogs for the sake of it (I only flea treated my dog once when she actually had fleas). At least with the likes of fleas though worst case scenario is your house gets infested and the dog gets tapeworms. Lungworm - worst case scenario dog dies fairly rapidly with little or no warning signs. I don't think I'd trust herbal preventatives to deal with it.
I'm struggling with what to recommend to my clients in the area where I work, which has a low incidence of lungworm (so small risk but still horrendous thing if it happens). I just Milbemax my own dog every 3 months (which is not often enough for lungworm as the incubation period is much shorter as you know). If I lived in a high lungworm area I'd definitely go with the panacur/milbemax on alternate months or monthly advocate as for me, I think the increased risk of clinical disease would far outweigh my natural disinclination to treat that often.

[PurpleFrog]

Hmm - I thought Scotland was free from lungworm, but according to an online map I have just googled there have been cases just north of us. We use Milbemax every 3 months at the moment.

[Lonecatwithkitten]

The issue with lungworm is it is moving fast and the online maps plot recorded cases so by the time it is on the online map it is well and truly in your area. My town went from no cases at all to 25 including 3 fatals in a very short time.
My practice's fatal case presented with hind limb joint pain and this dog had luxating patellas and legg perthes disease already so it appear to be just a worsening of those two conditions.
We also have lyme disease in our area too so preventing tick attachment and rapid killing if they do attach is really important. As we are in the South close to channel ports with the dropping of tick treatment before re-entry to the UK we are expecting erlichia, leishmania etc will be with us shortly too.

[SpicyPear]

What would you suggest for occasional holidays in tick areas? We use Advocate monthly and Drontal or Panacur every three months so don't have any tick coverage because we don't get them here.

[affafantoosh]

Either Advantix spot on or Seresto collars - other products will kill ticks but don't have a repellant effect.

[Aked]

There is the Scalibor collar too. Kills ticks and gives 6 months protection against fleas. Think from what I remember it is water resistant too. One of our vets always recommends it for travel abroad.

[Lonecatwithkitten]

There is also Vectra too new out this year.

[SpicyPear]

Thanks all. I'm going to ring the local vet in the area we are next travelling to to get an idea of the tick situation. Last year we just didn't think of it and ended up driving some distance to buy a tick twister while I googled diseases and got into a panic about how long they might have been on them!

[muttynutty]

No idea about this at all but saw a link for this natural tick repellant probably a load of rubbish

Spicy how on earth do you get Advocate on your lip