When to let puppy off her lead?

[anchovies]

She's not even allowed out yet for walks but I figured it's best to be prepared!

With our rescue lab he was very clingy so we had no worries about him as he always stayed close by however the new puppy seems to be much more aloof! I have clicker trained her name, sit, down etc and am now working on come however despite loving food, once she has her mind set on something (eg if she pinched something she's not meant to have) she wont come back for anything. It sounds a bit pathetic but it's like she doesn't really like me!

Had originally planned to just let her off lead from the beginning (obviously with a long lead practice first and then a long lead trailing in a big field) but now am getting nervous that this isn't the best idea?

[belindarose]

I let my springer off on his first walk. Was with a friend and her dog in the woods. Like you, we'd practised recall at home. I had treats and just kept recalling now and again. Have never looked back. Might not be right for everyone but our trainer suggested it to us.

[daisydotandgertie]

Let her off straight away - make sure it's somewhere secure though.

As a tiny on her first walk, she will be so overwhelmed by everything around her that she will want to be near you.

Your pup sounds super confident and very bright, so don't miss that vital window of apprehension by keeping her on the lead.

Take some really stinky treats with you and make sure she knows you have them. Not sure what you mean by having clicker trained her name - a name alone means diddly to a dog.

Don't set her up for a fall by trying to teach 'come' when you know she won't listen. Do it when you have her full attention - do it before meals too.

Really stop trying to get her to come when she's pinched something - it's turning the command into a game for her - she's bright and knows you want what she's got. She's hoping you'll play chasing her for it.

If you really need the thing back, distract her by finding a high value toy and making out that's the best thing ever - she'll come to you then. Maybe something squeaky? Even turn your back on her and pretend to run off with the squeaky toy - she'll follow you if the thing you have seems more exciting than her toy.

Otherwise, ignore it. Taking inappropriate things is not to be turned into a game.

Dogs play with each other just like that - it's a very favoured game in our house. Nick the best toy, wave it about and bait someone to a chasing game. It is a very happy way to spend HOURS of time here!

[anchovies]

Thanks for the replies, sounds like I will just have to be brave!

Clicker trained her name so I could say her name and get her attention, just to get her focused on what we are doing really.

Understand what you mean about "come" I don't think she even knows what it means yet let alone actually bothering to do it! So far I am just rewarding her for coming with me or turning away from a distraction.

If she knows I want something back, no matter what I've got on offer she won't leave it alone. I am trying my best to ignore it but it's so hard when she pinches things that she really shouldn't have (eg took my sons glasses of his face this morning Wouldn't bother saying come or going after her as you're right that just sends her into a frenzy. She has even got our other lab (who never plays) joining in with her naughtiness! Have just tried running away from her making stupid noises after she took the remote in the garden however and that has worked a treat - thanks :o

[daisydotandgertie]

She's your new rescue isn't she?

It sounds as though she is a bit hyper at the moment - my guess is she is a bit overwhelmed by all the new things at the moment and acting up accordingly. Running on adrenaline, if you like.

She sounds a lot like Daisydog3 who didn't have the best start for a household dog and was - in hindsight - hideous when she was a puppy. Horribly mouthy, leaping up with teeth everywhere, nicking things to play ALL THE TIME.

With hindsight, she was stressed and overwhelmed with everything. She'd never felt grass, been outside her kennel, heard a phone, washing machine, etc, or had masses of cuddles and picking up and so on. She was very over stimulated by physical contact - didn't know how to handle it - and pretty much everything else tbh.

We had to wind things right down - and be super calm, gentle and consistent with her. She is a super clever girl, so picked things up quickly but just didn't know what the hell we wanted from her.

She needed teaching what the right thing to do was - and was far less stressed by that than by letting her try to work it out.

I wonder if your girl is similar. She hasn't got a jeffing clue what is the right thing to do in a family home, so is almost manic trying to work out what's going on.

We had to manage rest times very strictly - otherwise she just didn't rest and got worse and worse and worse. We stopped treating for good behaviour because the food was too much for her - it made her very, very snappy. Gentle strokes on her chest did the trick when she 'got' something, strokes on her head were too stimulating for her.

I might be way off the mark with your dog though - feel free to ignore!

[anchovies]

Yes that's right, she's clearly not had the best start.

What you've said about your 3rd dog makes a lot of sense, it's so hard to see when you're "in it" though isn't it! Yesterday was a bad day as my 3 yr old wasn't in nursery and everything was a bit frantic where as today everything has been much calmer and quieter and left to her own devices she has slept a lot more.

I have started picking her up and putting her in her crate in the back room when she's asleep cos she tends just to fall asleep wherever she happens to be which then means she inevitably is disturbed pretty regularly. She is clearly very clever, picking things up very quickly and is following our other dogs lead - sits and waits for her food for example but she does seem like a toddler in a lot of ways, gets very carried away when things get exciting and you can clearly see when she's overtired. It's hard to know though what's natural puppy exuberance and what is her feeling stressed and overwhelmed.

How does it work with bonding with puppies if you don't mind me asking? She is very independent and rarely approaches us for anything although doesn't seem to mind be picked up/groomed etc. It seems strange after having a great big cuddle monster who spends his life following us round and trying to be as close to us as possible, to have a puppy who doesn't seem to fussed about us either way!

[daisydotandgertie]

It is so hard to see when you're in it - even with more than enough Labrador experience to help out.

It's a good idea to keep popping her into her crate - it'll teach her where to go and as you say, give her a fighting chance to have a good sleep. Puppies are so much like toddlers - some would say even harder to manage!

I thought she sounded bright - with masses of promise, especially if she's picking things up so quickly. She will be a dream to train as long as you crack what makes her tick.

I expect it's attention that rings her bells at the moment - both positive and negative.

Your question about bonding is an interesting one, and it took a while for me in particular to bond with daisydog3. She didn't actually know that it was comforting to be with people - the complete opposite to daisydogs1,2 and 4 (all 4 are Labradors who I work).

Once she'd worked out the comfort thing was good - and that she wanted to be with us more than most things (except for birdies and badger poo) she went too far the opposite way. Even at 2 she still likes to lie on my feet while I'm cooking in the teeny gap between my feet and the kitchen plinth. She used to fling herself at us for cuddles no matter what we were doing, she still likes to lie around the back of our necks a bit like a scarf when we sit on the sofa. She also likes to press herself into any bit of us she can reach as hard as she can for a cuddle.

I particularly remember she was awful about being dried. Biting, blood curdling growling just awful. On the face of it she sounded like an absolute savage. Actually, she was overwhelmed and frightened and instinct took over. It took a while, but we jollied her out of it. Lots of high, sing song 'silly, silly billy - It's only a towel, silly, girlie' doesn't matter what, actually as long as it made her think it was an OK thing to be happening. Telling her off would have been the absolute worst thing to do. She love, love, loves towelling off now!

She worked out the bonding thing for herself. I didn't want to make any special effort because of her tendency to go completely manic with stimulation - and because we have 3 other dogs. I don't think it is a good idea to make any special effort with one over the others - and I don't think it can be taught, as such. They have to work it out.

What built the bond with her was training. One on one - especially with a bright dog. It's more important than you can imagine to take them out one at a time. Firstly and most importantly, because you really don't want them building up a stronger bond with each other than they have with you, but also because it creates such a strong bond with you.

Some time spent one on one training each day - no more than 5 minute sessions - will really help.

You'll also have to teach her how to ask for attention if she's anything like mine. Mine tried all sorts of capers - some of which bloody hurt until we worked out that she had missed a vital part of socialisation and didn't have any idea what to do.

It mignt also help to bear in mind just how much she is having to learn and cope with, compared to your average, home reared pup. She will be coming on in leaps and bounds, even if it is in things she really ought to know about by now! Treat her like a toddler and you won't go far wrong!

[anchovies]

Thanks so much for that daisydotandgertie, the info is really useful and I had a chat with dh and the dc's last night about keeping things a little more quiet and consistent. You were right about the attention thing, positive or negative she doesn't care but is just trying to get us to interact with her. Have been encouraging some quieter games especially with the dc's eg hiding treats, hide and seek, playing in the tunnel etc rather than just all tearing around the garden like lunatics.

Bearing in mind what you've said about how much she's had to take in, and how much she's learnt in the last week, I am feeling much more positive. She has done fantastically with toilet training, 3 wee's inside since we got her, despite having an off tummy after vaccinations as well. Takes herself outside or whines to be let out. Definitely starting to become more attached to me as well, this morning she has been like my little shadow! I think it has really helped just understanding what is going on with her.

Thanks again - will keep up the training and it's nice at the moment just enjoying having her!